Unchained Preppers
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: technique on September 12, 2011, 11:51:17 PM
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Check out this Video. Basically some SF guys teaching AA as they go.
I know very little in comparison to some of these guys, from my perspective though,
this entry was fucked from the time the door came down.
Second man in (SF) guy was slow on getting in, at least from how I've been schooled
to make entry and clear an occupied dwelling... And I was schooled by SF and Rangerific individuals.
Obviously it's hard to say viewing this from only one helmet cam, but after the AA guy takes fire
and flees, the SF guy engages the guy through the wall (fuckin' classy, nice touch!)
But then heads toward the doorway but straight into what looks like another doorway, (looks like to outside of the dwelling)
exposing himself while continuing to engage....That could have been covered, hard to say.
Pretty awesome footage anyway you slice it.
Anyway, here's the vid and the description...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUmpl4JnDdA&feature=player_embedded
Special Forces working with Afghan Army. The first guy through the door is AA. His weapon is hit and he turns and runs out the door (look for sparks when rounds hit his weapon). He is killed when he runs outside (this happens off camera). Insurgents inside the house shoot the AA soldier through holes in the front of the building. The Special Forces soldier neutralizes the threat. Training makes all the difference.
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Ehh, looking at it again, going in wasn't that slow.
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Pretty crazy footage indeed. Sucks that AA guy died.
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i like this vid, it've seen it before. most out there are military engaging from behind walls or berms..and you cant see whats going on on the other end. this is something you could actually learn something from and point out the good and bad. the huts and compounds over there are hard to clear sometimes. this was a small compound though, still hard to cover all exits and entries when your taking fire.
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Was that a military front end loader at the begnning?
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i like this vid, it've seen it before. most out there are military engaging from behind walls or berms..and you cant see whats going on on the other end. this is something you could actually learn something from and point out the good and bad. the huts and compounds over there are hard to clear sometimes. this was a small compound though, still hard to cover all exits and entries when your taking fire.
That's the type of response I was looking for. One to spark a bit of conversation.
I've never, well not "never taken fire", I lived in Oakland for several years...LOL.
Aside from that, simunitions in CQC training environments. Lots of dry tactics.
This to me looked well executed. I think the AA guy made some mistakes, obviously
a lack of skill there. I also think one of the cool things I learned from this was that
these guys go fast. They jumped out of the vehicle and basically had to hit hard right
then and there. That was something I don't necessarily get a feeling of in controlled
environments. There was a sense of urgency obviously, being out in the open and likely
the guys in the house knowing they are there. They really have no choice in that situation,
the just have to go!
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Deffinatley a fucked situation, they knew our people were there. I can't believe he didn't kill everyone in the room.
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It really shows how reality is not like some sterile training environment. Also, if I was "making entry" I would half expect to get shot. Although I do base a lot of my tactical gear decisions around the idea that, yes I can actually get shot. I'm seriously considering some side SAPIs because of it.
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Flash/bang. Through the holes in the front of the compound and through the front door.
This wasn't a planned type of entry that you get in most training classes. This was a play it by ear entry. It was going to be hairy any way that it went.
I could almost smell the adrenalin.
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99% of all entries we ever did were by the seat of our pants. Once inside something was usually fucked up and the only option was to press on. Violence of action saved our asses time and time again.
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I love the way that the guy with the gopro pied that doorway and was able to engage the target.. I thought that move was pretty smooth.
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99% of all entries we ever did were by the seat of our pants. Once inside something was usually fucked up and the only option was to press on. Violence of action saved our asses time and time again.
For planned raids on a target, we had the whole 5 paragraph order, CCP, out and inner cordon and all of that shit.
But once you're in the house. Yup, I totally agree with you. You can and will fuck up. What's important is that you do --something-- dynamically and violently. Having quality guys with you who are decisive in action is the other half of surviving.
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of course I've never once been in any situation even remotely close to this, but I just can't wrap my head around how they always bust the door and rush in so quickly. obviously, they wouldn't do it that way if it wasn't the most effective way to do it, but it just boggles my mind every time I see one of these types of videos. the few times I've felt the need to clear my house, I was a fuckin creep. big time.
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of course I've never once been in any situation even remotely close to this, but I just can't wrap my head around how they always bust the door and rush in so quickly. obviously, they wouldn't do it that way if it wasn't the most effective way to do it, but it just boggles my mind every time I see one of these types of videos. the few times I've felt the need to clear my house, I was a fuckin creep. big time.
Your house. where someone else is the intruder.
these guys don't know this house, and if they get caught creeping the BG has a chance to react.
Like these guys are saying ^ above ^ Violence of action is a must. If you hesitate people will die
I have never done any real entries, but I have trained for it.
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of course I've never once been in any situation even remotely close to this, but I just can't wrap my head around how they always bust the door and rush in so quickly. obviously, they wouldn't do it that way if it wasn't the most effective way to do it, but it just boggles my mind every time I see one of these types of videos. the few times I've felt the need to clear my house, I was a fuckin creep. big time.
Your house. where someone else is the intruder.
these guys don't know this house, and if they get caught creeping the BG has a chance to react.
Like these guys are saying ^ above ^ Violence of action is a must. If you hesitate people will die
I have never done any real entries, but I have trained for it.
that's gotta require a pair of nuts like bowling balls...
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I've never done it so I can't say.
I can say that from my experience of things. " let the training take over " really comes to mind.
From my experience, it did. That and instinct.
This one time cruising down MSR Tampa, a Truck driver jump out of his truck with his hand over his shoulder, ( looked to me like he was getting ready to toss a frag ) so knowing that my gunner was watching the 9 I cut the wheel slightly to run his ass over, when I realized he didn't have anything, I cut it back into position, My squad leader ( also my TC ) goes " what the hell was that? " I said. " well it looked like he was ganna toss a frag "
" so you where ganna run him over "
" hell yeah SSG "
" Ok "
Not much of a story but, it happened and it involves training so I figured I would tell it.
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Yeah, it's just funny that in training, you have this perfect stack going on. A guy at the door, a guy looking up, and a guy checking the six...maybe a few more somewhere in the middle. Everything is pretty perfect.
Once you go through that door though, speed, force and VoA is for sure a must.
NOLA, if you're the guy in the house, staying stationary is an advantage.
Or moving quickly to an area that gives you the advantage.
I'd be willing to bet Hadji wasn't alerted by the sound of the vehicle or the door coming down...they were alerted by the clanging sound these guys balls made as they ran to the house.
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99% of all entries we ever did were by the seat of our pants. Once inside something was usually fucked up and the only option was to press on. Violence of action saved our asses time and time again.
For planned raids on a target, we had the whole 5 paragraph order, CCP, out and inner cordon and all of that shit.
But once you're in the house. Yup, I totally agree with you. You can and will fuck up. What's important is that you do --something-- dynamically and violently. Having quality guys with you who are decisive in action is the other half of surviving.
Amen brother!
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99% of all entries we ever did were by the seat of our pants. Once inside something was usually fucked up and the only option was to press on. Violence of action saved our asses time and time again.
For planned raids on a target, we had the whole 5 paragraph order, CCP, out and inner cordon and all of that shit.
But once you're in the house. Yup, I totally agree with you. You can and will fuck up. What's important is that you do --something-- dynamically and violently. Having quality guys with you who are decisive in action is the other half of surviving.
Amen brother!
+1
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See with a building like that your team pretty much has to make the choice of weather to stick to doctrine and clear each room with at least 3 guys or to keep the forward momentum going and not letting the crows get the chance to counter it effectively. But if you do that you leave room for errors.
By what I got from it the #3 man failed to take #1's place when he got hit/disabled giving the crow time to seek cover and shoot 1# as he flees the building.
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99% of all entries we ever did were by the seat of our pants. Once inside something was usually fucked up and the only option was to press on. Violence of action saved our asses time and time again.
For planned raids on a target, we had the whole 5 paragraph order, CCP, out and inner cordon and all of that shit.
But once you're in the house. Yup, I totally agree with you. You can and will fuck up. What's important is that you do --something-- dynamically and violently. Having quality guys with you who are decisive in action is the other half of surviving.
Amen brother!
+1
Well, I was a CQB instructor for a reason... (okay, that reason was solely my outstanding good looks and had nothing to do with experience in the second Fallujah push in November 04'... :)) )
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I gotta say Big ups for that guy not killing everyone in the room. That for me is the hardest part to try to wrap my head around. I know it skill level and training, trainig, training but.... I would have shot everyone in that room and then quickly would have found a place to change my underwear.
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i agree, #3 man should have replaced #1 when he went down. from the looks of it #3 was checking the window near the main entrance, had he been behind #1 the both of them probably would have stumbled on each other (small hallway) trying to get out of there and might have got kilt! But when shits happening you cant hesitate, that will get you and everyone else with you shot. but you guys already knew that :))
Side Point: I think those are Afghani Police not Army..never seen AA wear blue before, and would explain the lack of skill. AA are pretty good with their shit..when they want to be. The police are just fucked and have no discipline at all what so ever and no real desire to learn either. Most police are locals to the towns that they are stationed in for the most part, so there is a lack of intelligence. Most of the AA (at least that i knew) are from Kabul or surrounding areas and are smarter and understand the training alot better. sorry, i rambled alittle:P
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Rambling is good, i'm learning something new about the Stan. I was in the other shit hole so I know nothing of A.A. just I.A.