Unchained Preppers
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: JoJo on April 03, 2018, 07:11:16 PM
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Some people are so stupid. They ask "Who is going to pay the military for guarding the boarder, the tax payer of course". Well stupid it will cost more to support these Illegals with welfare, medical and a host of other benefits that they were told to ask for once they cross the boarder. They will be given drivers license's so they can vote and you lose your country.
Start learning Spanish!
Here comes Trump :USTroops:
When I read that stupid statement on another blog I got so angry. Well rant over.
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Some people are so stupid. They ask "Who is going to pay the military for guarding the boarder, the tax payer of course". Well stupid it will cost more to support these Illegals with welfare, medical and a host of other benefits that they were told to ask for once they cross the boarder. They will be given drivers license's so they can vote and you lose your country.
Start learning Spanish!
Here comes Trump :USTroops:
When I read that stupid statement on another blog I got so angry. Well rant over.
Love your sentiment and that "smilie"
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Liberals are total dumbasses. Soldiers get paid the same when they sit on their ass as when they are fighting or guarding. They eat just as much food when fighting or sitting. :chuky: :gunner: :lmfao:
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sounds like a good training op.
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I think guarding our borders is a reasonable - if not the main - function of the military.
I do seem to remember this idea coming up before. If memory serves, most of the border is private property - that caused some concern. There is also right of access. There were lawsuits when they tried to put trailers with pole mounted cameras and sensors on people's property.
The border is round about 2,000 miles long and would eat up a lot of soldier power
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Someone will bring up The Posse Comitatus Act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)
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The invasion mob is headed for southern California so they don't need to cover the complete boarder. As for Posse Comitatus the soldiers will be used as spotters and do the tasks that is not policing freeing up the Boarder Patrol.
Both Bush and obama did the same thing.
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@Kbop, thanks for reminding us all about the The Posse Comitatus Act which is probably part of the reason that the military has not swooped into Chicago to clean up that mess.
If my memory is correct, didn't in 2014 or so, Governor Perry deployed the Texas National Guard to the border to fend off the first influx of kids from El Salvatore?
With that written, I believe that the US Constitution requires that the Federal government must defend the border from invasion. Specifically, Article IV, Section 4 - Clause 2. The questions will be...Is this an invasion? And...What constitutes an invasion?
Lets keep in mind, although the border is 2,000 miles long, a percentage of it does not need protection for one reason or another due to geographical reasons.
Another question to think about, What happens if this invasion happens in southern California and Mr. Trump calls out the Marines to guard that border - Will Governor Brown call out the California National Guard to prevent this action by the Federal government? If I was the facilitators of this invasion I would head towards California just for this show down.
@JoJo, I am not surprised that the MSM media is asking, "who would pay for these troops?" Their job is to pass propaganda on to the folks who do not take the time to screw down and figure out the truth.
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This whole thing is a slippery slope big time.
Posse Comitatus Act is a big time safety net and should never be weakened.
So here is the deal. The national guard is a tool that can be used for domestic actions. Primarily law allows state national guard units to be utilised in domestic security capacities along with uses providing relief support in disasters. The reserves and regular military forces are allowed to be used in relief efforts. They are not allowed to be used on domestic territory in an armed capacity.
Now this is really important and needs to be payed attention to. If active military forces are ever used in an armed capacity to enforce laws domestically, we end up sliding down a slope that leads to some serious and bad things. To open the door to allowing the political elite (Note that this includes almost every single politician both local and national) to be able to call in the active military forces to crush anyone that they feel might be breaking the law or may be a security risk. Opens the door to disaster. Ignoring Posse Comitatus Act means that military forces that are direct action forces can be used to enforce laws.
Ladies and gentlemen, take a moment to think about this. I submit that you do not use forces who's mission is to close with and kill the enemy in a capacity where normally you would arrest and detain. You think Waco was bad? Just wait and see where this whole thing could end up going.
Peace all....
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Gadget99 I think most of us understand that so let me ask why can't he use the Federal Marshals and other LEO's like the FBI? There are non lethal tools that could be used like the sound cannon which makes a painful noise also water cannon.
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Gadget99 I think most of us understand that so let me ask why can't he use the Federal Marshals and other LEO's like the FBI? There are non lethal tools that could be used like the sound cannon which makes a painful noise also water cannon.
Hiya,
Sorry I got on my high horse. Posse Comitatus Act is a real touchy subject with me. So forgive me if I came on to strong.
As for using Federal LEO in this. By all means that can and should be done. They are all part of the DHS so it is a no brainer. If they want to strengthen the border then they need to use the department's that are allocated to that job. If a state like Texas is concerned that the Federal agency responsible for border security is not doing the job well. They can activate and legally use the National Guard to shore things up.
The answer to strengthening the border in real terms is to hire and deploy more DHS resourves.
As I said earlier anything that may mess with Posse Comitatus is a big trigger for me. 20yrs in the Army and I still have problems with the moment I was in the mess hall looking at the TV seeing the government I was serving kill all those people.
So I guess it could be said that I have a definite rigged stance on the subject.
Yet I will not knock other people's opinions.
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Gadget, in no way did I find your comments out of wack and fact I agree with you that the US Military should be allowed to be deployed in the interior of the country against US Citizens. This was done illegally against the Bonus Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army) protests in 1932.
Now I would like to read your thoughts on calling out the military as outlined in Article IV, Section 4, clause 2, to repel invaders?
One thought - If the military was pulled out to repel these invaders, would that president be used in the future by a Democrat President? After all, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. ;)
@JoJo, I like your idea of sending DHS forces to the border location that these invaders are going to assault. There is more than one way to skin a cat. :cheers:
Clause 2: Protection from invasion and domestic violence
[...] and [the United States] shall protect each of them [the States] against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
Section Four requires the United States to protect each state from invasion, and, upon the application of the state legislature (or executive, if the legislature cannot be convened), from domestic violence. This provision was invoked by Woodrow Wilson during the 1914 Colorado coal strike.[20]
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Gadget, in no way did I find your comments out of wack and fact I agree with you that the US Military should be allowed to be deployed in the interior of the country against US Citizens. This was done illegally against the Bonus Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army) protests in 1932.
Now I would like to read your thoughts on calling out the military as outlined in Article IV, Section 4, clause 2, to repel invaders?
One thought - If the military was pulled out to repel these invaders, would that president be used in the future by a Democrat President? After all, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. ;)
@JoJo, I like your idea of sending DHS forces to the border location that these invaders are going to assault. There is more than one way to skin a cat. :cheers:
Clause 2: Protection from invasion and domestic violence
[...] and [the United States] shall protect each of them [the States] against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
Section Four requires the United States to protect each state from invasion, and, upon the application of the state legislature (or executive, if the legislature cannot be convened), from domestic violence. This provision was invoked by Woodrow Wilson during the 1914 Colorado coal strike.[20]
I think the operative aspect of the question should be the definition of invader.
I suggest that the spirit of the law resides in the traditional view and of definition of an invader.
That an invasion is an organised armed incursion upon territory by an organization or nation with the intent of seizing and taking such from another organised entity.
The issues being discussed are around the prevention of migration of individuals. Not securing the border against an organised incursion. An incursion with intent is part of the key here. An organised procession of people intending to cross a border in protest is not an invasion.
To classify migration activity of the individual or grouping of individuals as an invasion does not hold up to scrutiny.
A good amount of effort is being expended to blur the lines here. Both the left and the right are pushing hard to divide the populace.
Just pissed me off sometimes.
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Please remember I an opinionated old fart. With opinions stemming from a jaded attitude born from being the instrument of political policy for 20yrs of my life. Through all that I am still faithful to my oath and nation.
I tend to be wary of topic or issues that garner heavy division within the populace. The stronger the division is, the more likely that it is the result of malicious manipulation. So I begin to ask myself what are we being distracted from seeing.
Ok chilled now.
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There seems to be quite a bit of disagreement about the word, "INVADERS". The US has been invaded by Aficanized Bees and invaded by Fire Ants. Therefore any large group can be an invader. Don't try to narrow it down by them having to wear a uniform and be human. These people that are attempting to invade our country are Invaders and should be met with force to repel them. This is not a Posse Comutatus or Marshall Law issue. This is a foreign invasion and it is clearly a military issue. I personally don't subscribe to the notion that these are welcome guests that expect to stay as long as they like. I see them the same as I will see the future scavengers that will try to overrun our personal property when the SHTF and come to take what is not theirs. Anybody who wants to kiss their ass can pucker up but I'll have no part in allowing them to overrun our boarders.
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It's important to note that MS-13 has a heavy presence in Honduras and I wouldn't be surprised if a large part of this invading force are members of MS-13. Looking at photos of the illegal migrants, I say illegal because they did not properly go through the immigration process in Mexico, the majority of the group seem to be young males.
I hate to say it, but if the military fired upon these invaders; perhaps they would finally understand that they are not welcome. Nothing else seems to deter their intention of entering the country. Violent force may be the only way to make them understand.
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Ok....
Now we have some clarity to work with on this.
The Guardian: Trump plans to send national guard to protect Mexico border 'immediately' http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwqrSwjTg
Sending the National Guard is fully within the current legal landscape as well as being a sensible precaution.
I fully support any move that takes place within the constitutional and legal framework of our nation.
I only oppose things that erode the constitutional and legal protections that make our nation great.
Cheers all
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Hopefully, the government will detain and immediately deport any of those who manage to cross the border. No catch and release.
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Hopefully, the government will detain and immediately deport any of those who manage to cross the border. No catch and release.
if you create enough 'back pressure' in Mexico, maybe just maybe the Federales will police their own southern border.
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You know, Mr. Trump could end 'catch & release' with a stroke of a pen. The policy is Mr. Bush's EO from back in 2006.
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You know, Mr. Trump could end 'catch & release' with a stroke of a pen. The policy is Mr. Bush's EO from back in 2006.
Today on Fox the DHS Secretary said he did that when he first took office.
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https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHS/bulletins/1e77386 (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHS/bulletins/1e77386)
STATEMENT FROM THE PRESS SECRETARY ON MARCH BORDER NUMBERS
U.S. Department of Homeland Security sent this bulletin at 04/05/2018 01:30 PM EDT
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
Office of the Press Secretary
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 5, 2018
STATEMENT FROM THE PRESS SECRETARY ON MARCH BORDER NUMBERS
WASHINGTON – Today, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Press Secretary Tyler Q. Houlton released the following statement on U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s (CBP) March Southwest Border Migration numbers:
“The crisis at our Southwest border is real. The number of illegal border crossings during the month of March shows an urgent need to address the ongoing situation at the border. We saw a 203 percent increase from March 2017 compared to March 2018 and a 37 percent increase from last month to this month – the largest increase from month to month since 2011. Illegal aliens continue to exploit our immigration laws. We need to close these dangerous loopholes that are being taken advantage of each and every day, gain operational control of the border, and fully fund the border wall system. As the President has repeatedly said, all options are on the table.”
The numbers can be found HERE.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration)
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Trump needs to keep hammering Congress regarding immigration laws, especially since public opinion seems to be on his side at the moment.
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Hey guys.
i Have to say. To this day your laws and general banding together(to back it), make me jealous.
I wish my fellow countrymen had half the backbone of yours (generally speaking-excluding the antifa and other extremist cultures).
I am referring to The Pride to be an American. It is something i could never truly understand until i saw how your military operates and how respected they are.
Pride as a nation in a country it's flag and it's constitution in a way that i hope and pray never ebb's away.
May you and your countrymen strive to keep that culture alive.
It is beautiful. It is something that the Boer Afrikaner once had and has lost because of oppression. You will never be the same again if you ever lost it.
So from another point of view fight to keep your values and laws upheld with every breath you have. Teach these values to your children and never let it die.
If i would say anyone could weather this storm, it would be the true patriotic Americans, none of those weird fence sitting, keyboard hero, sensitive sissy kids who run around making noise for no reason crying fowl play every time they don't get their way.
I mean the old-school Americans.
Salute to you my friends.
And keep at it.
RM
:zombitron:
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WOW! That was a beautiful read RM...Thanks! :cheers:
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Salute to you my friends.
RM
:zombitron:
And to you for dealing with the situation there.
Come on over and stay a while.
Ever heard of Forged in Fire TV show? Blacksmithing competition. I think I heard you do that some. Might look into it to get a reason and possibly some assistance on a visit if you are interested. I don't think it would be a major issue if you overstayed a visa.
Nemo
https://www.history.com/shows/forged-in-fire (https://www.history.com/shows/forged-in-fire)
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There seems to be quite a bit of disagreement about the word, "INVADERS". The US has been invaded by Aficanized Bees and invaded by Fire Ants. Therefore any large group can be an invader. Don't try to narrow it down by them having to wear a uniform and be human. These people that are attempting to invade our country are Invaders and should be met with force to repel them. This is not a Posse Comutatus or Marshall Law issue. This is a foreign invasion and it is clearly a military issue. I personally don't subscribe to the notion that these are welcome guests that expect to stay as long as they like. I see them the same as I will see the future scavengers that will try to overrun our personal property when the SHTF and come to take what is not theirs. Anybody who wants to kiss their ass can pucker up but I'll have no part in allowing them to overrun our boarders.
I agree 100% :fuckYeah:
If they show up at the boarder they should be given a pamphlet describing how to LEGALLY become a US citizen and then turned away. We should use the military, civilian leo's, feds, and civilian volunteers to fight back this invasion
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It is good that we can debate these issues in here.
It looks as if the direction that the government are heading in a direction that is providing some comfort for the many sides of the discussion.
1. The forces bring proposed for use are the ones that the current legal framework allows.
2. So there is no potential for an erosion of an current legal frameworks.
3. The border can be strengthened by agencies that have experience doing so.
4. Of note ... I know for a fact that the Texas National Guard has experience working the border. I had many friends that pulled that assignment over the years. So they are a good fit.
Nice to see the healthy debate here. For the record my posts on this were in no way against stronger enforcement of immigration laws and strengthening security of our border. As A matter of fact my British wife who was on heck of an Army Wife was asked to leave the States due to a clerical error in her green card application and we accepted the law being the law. So I do understand immigration issues.
My prime and only concern was around Posse Comutatus and my concern at what would happen if we handed that kind of power to the career politicians.
Peace all
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Gadget, your input is always appreciated. You bring a unique level of understanding to the mix.
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Gadget, your input is always appreciated. You bring a unique level of understanding to the mix.
Hiya JM
No worries. Was not offended or upset about the debate.
Just realised I had as per usual not provided the level of context on my posts as I wished I had.
It does show how great the group we have here on the forum is. Good healthy debate with no hearts on sleeves.
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Hey guys.
i Have to say. To this day your laws and general banding together(to back it), make me jealous.
I wish my fellow countrymen had half the backbone of yours (generally speaking-excluding the antifa and other extremist cultures).
I am referring to The Pride to be an American. It is something i could never truly understand until i saw how your military operates and how respected they are.
Pride as a nation in a country it's flag and it's constitution in a way that i hope and pray never ebb's away.
May you and your countrymen strive to keep that culture alive.
It is beautiful. It is something that the Boer Afrikaner once had and has lost because of oppression. You will never be the same again if you ever lost it.
So from another point of view fight to keep your values and laws upheld with every breath you have. Teach these values to your children and never let it die.
If i would say anyone could weather this storm, it would be the true patriotic Americans, none of those weird fence sitting, keyboard hero, sensitive sissy kids who run around making noise for no reason crying fowl play every time they don't get their way.
I mean the old-school Americans.
Salute to you my friends.
And keep at it.
RM
:zombitron:
One heck of a compliment you have payed in this.
I wish to fire back that anyone that has to deal with what is happening down your way and stays sane. Is made of some special stuff also.
Stay safe
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Salute to you my friends.
RM
:zombitron:
And to you for dealing with the situation there.
Come on over and stay a while.
Ever heard of Forged in Fire TV show? Blacksmithing competition. I think I heard you do that some. Might look into it to get a reason and possibly some assistance on a visit if you are interested. I don't think it would be a major issue if you overstayed a visa.
Nemo
https://www.history.com/shows/forged-in-fire (https://www.history.com/shows/forged-in-fire)
Pretty sure with your current president i am still considered an outsider.
I would most definitely come and visit. I am a metalsmith of sorts... not close to the"Forged in Fire" guys however, i could do the most amazing inlays on their weapons however.
I know the old school Texas guys would love that.
But on a serious note. I mean what i said about American Patriotism to God and country. :cheers:
RM
:zombitron: