Author Topic: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises  (Read 2825 times)

Offline Erick

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
  • Karma: +9/-0
Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« on: December 13, 2015, 04:44:01 PM »
10 days ago my FLIR Scout II came in.  :dance:

it comes with a nice carrying case that is MOLLE equipped
It comes with multi-country compatible charging equipment.
Also the USB arrangement ensures you cna recharge it form computers, solar chargers, many generators and portable cell fone reserve batteries.

I did not record any footage since it should charge 5 hrs on 1st use but here are some links:

at 1:50 is the portion most relevant to us:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKWmq1i517k

I used a friends FLIR Scout II 240 a couple weeks ago and noticed that cattle that were completely invisible behind bushes (that could have hidden a Platoon!) now were easily seen:

This is similar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm7THzHJkcA

Edited by JMc

« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 07:52:34 AM by JohnyMac »
Every day, men who will follow orders to kill you, exercise. Do you?

Offline JohnyMac

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 15092
  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2015, 05:00:12 PM »
 :drool: Erick!
Keep abreast of J6 arrestees at https://americangulag.org/ Donate if you can for their defense.

Offline CJS06

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 579
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2015, 09:19:04 AM »
Erick

Thanks!  Does that unit have any mounting capabilities or just handheld?  I have been looking to pickup an ATN unit that is built using a PVS 14 body so it can mount up the same way as my nvg unit.  I look forward to hearing how well it is working out for you after you have a little bit of time with it.

Chris

Offline Erick

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2015, 05:34:31 PM »
Erick

Thanks!  Does that unit have any mounting capabilities or just handheld?  I have been looking to pickup an ATN unit that is built using a PVS 14 body so it can mount up the same way as my nvg unit.  I look forward to hearing how well it is working out for you after you have a little bit of time with it.
Chris

It has a mount on the bottom.
I can tell it would fit tripods or similar.
Maybe a weaver mount..

I'll take  a pic and post it later.
Every day, men who will follow orders to kill you, exercise. Do you?

Offline Erick

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2016, 07:35:58 PM »
Update:

been using it in training and to familiarize folks on my team with capabilities and limitation sof both light magnifying NVGs ( such as PVS14) and FLIR and their different strengths and weaknesses.
Every day, men who will follow orders to kill you, exercise. Do you?

Offline JohnyMac

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 15092
  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2016, 07:56:39 AM »
Great. Now that you have had it for four months any additions to your original review?

One question I have is...If you had to pick one, NV or FLIR, what would you buy?
Keep abreast of J6 arrestees at https://americangulag.org/ Donate if you can for their defense.

Offline Erick

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 04:41:49 PM »
Great. Now that you have had it for four months any additions to your original review?

One question I have is...If you had to pick one, NV or FLIR, what would you buy?


Well a NV set -up to make full use of its abilities is more expensive (helmet+helmetmount + PVS14+ DBAL or OTAL for the rifle = 4700
http://www.jrhenterprises.com/Night-Fighter-Combo-2-PVS14-HP-Upgrade-IR-Laser-ACH-Helmet-Nightfighter2Upgreen.htm )

But of course the advanatge is you can do both night observing/recon and fighting with such aset -up.
A affordbale hand held flir like the Scout is a little under 2k BUt it cna only do observations/scanning albeit better for humans than the PVS is most situations.

I bought a PVS14 /DBVAL combo first but some may have  a more violence avoidance oriented approach to night time trouble (women and very old folks) and may be better served by a FLIR....

Soon I will publish an article on this and another site for NV/FLIR operational concept for the budget minded prepper group.
Its been in my head for a year I just need to write it down
Every day, men who will follow orders to kill you, exercise. Do you?

Offline JohnyMac

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 15092
  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2016, 06:49:32 AM »
Cool. Thx Erick.
Keep abreast of J6 arrestees at https://americangulag.org/ Donate if you can for their defense.

Offline Erick

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 02:21:54 AM »
Update and also clarification.

A complete PVS14 set-up can be had much less than I listed up there if you wait for one of Robert's sales at JRHenterprises
http://www.jrhenterprises.com/Night-Vision_c3.htm;jsessionid=E6C5C77E12BB5F05686E9C4E96B1777D.m1plqscsfapp03

Sometimes he sells the mount plus helmet plus PVS as  a package deal.
Then all you need is an OTAL ( cheaper than a DBAL) and oyu are in business with a capability that roughly equals that of current US military issue.

Also I put a couple more hours on both 2 weekends ago.
The FLIR can also be easily charged via car charger.

PS: Also my apologies for my typos in previous post  :-[
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 05:12:03 PM by Erick »
Every day, men who will follow orders to kill you, exercise. Do you?

brat

  • Guest
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2016, 09:01:24 AM »
Quote
very old folks

I may qualify for this, more on some days than others the way I feel.  :facepalm:

But my question is for any of us who qualify, are retired and don't have the coin for the high end stuff. If you're on a more fixed income with a small budget you're most likely out of the FLIR game. So it's gonna be NVG. What do you look for in a lower end unit and are there any better units and are there units to steer clear of ?  Are the digital units worth it as opposed to Gen 1+ ? All you military folks have the upper hand on the use of these things and for me, at least, it's all Greek.  :-[

Quote
PS: Also my apologies for my typos in previous post

Don't worry about that. Just try to give your trigger finger a little more rest since it does the most work on the right side of that keyboard....  :dance:

Offline Erick

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2016, 04:55:19 PM »
Brat:

Even though this is known to most I will give a short review on what NVGs are to set up the answer:

NVGs are what they used to call "Starlight Scopes" back in the day when the technology was new.
Unlike FLIR, it doesnt look for heat differences, it amplifies the little light that always remains even when it's night out.

All generations of NVG do that exact thing.

The difference among the generations is primarily in their sensitivity, their resistance to "blooming" and their ease of operation/weight/size.
So it is one of nuances albeit non trivial ones.

A Gen 1 unit may on all but moonlit nights need a Illuminator.

These will use IR light which the unit can amplify into visible light for you in the ocular (but cannot be seen by those in your vicinity who do not wear NVG)

IR illuminators are often built into the early units, but rifle mounted IR light can be a powertool to dramatically improve the performance of the early generation NVGs (even late generation NVGs very much benefit from this on darker nights .. I've experienced this myself  when looking from a not quite perfectly dark road to pitch black underbrush.)

A late model NVG such as  a PVS14 properly adjusted will give you a vision that IMO is roughly equivalent to deep twilight with the naked eye.
Which means good enough to see most folks and engage most folks but not nearly as good as a bright day.

Even with these limitations they are an incredibly powerful tool and I encourage folks to buy them.

HOWEVER I do not agree with the school of thought that says " Dont bother buying anything less than a PVS14" .

The argument that is most often used by those folks is "If you buy an older unit you need to use IR illum most of the time and that cna light you up to the bad guys who also wear NVGs especially if they use NVGs that dont generally need Illum."

This argument presupposes that you are operating gen1 units in a situation that  minimizes its abilities while maximizing its weakness.
Could this happen? Sure but there is a reason they were used for many years to great effect by US military. They are by no means useless.

IMO Gen 1 units are MUCH better than having nothing.

If in the much quoted worst case that you are facing PVS 14 equipped guys gen1 NVG IMHO can still be very useful.

For one if you are facing such a team they will likely be very confident. almost certainly overconfident facing a "mere" prepper.
Any team thats well enough equipped to run PVS14 will be well equipped enough to run weapons mounted IR Illum as  helper...So... as a result they will use their own IR Illum at times.
(Heck some fools may leave them permanent on if they are overconfident or feel the dark woods/bushes closing in on them.. dont underestimate the effect of fear on even say a rogue SWAT team that's gone evil)

Even a good PVS 14 can benefit from  the use of weapons mounted IR when looking into brush and into dark rooms from the streets of a black outed city.

And when this happens they just illuminated themselves to you just as big as if u were using your IR illum. Kinda like using a powerful flashlight in the middle of night when both parties are using naked eye.
Same effect.

Also What is your primary sensor at night?
Your hearing isnt it (more on this later)...

Remember even the best NVGs can be defeated.
Even good PVS14 and even 15 as issued to the .mil cannot see you where a naked eye would fail to spot you in daytime.

So let me spin an example where a gen1 unit could still be VERY effective even in the worst case scenario of facing a PVS14 equipped Team.

Say you have Gen 1 and were to hide behind a bush that you know will hide you in broad daylight...
And then you wait... eventually they come close you can hear them.
You and your buddy dont talk and dont move a muscle (noise discipline!!!!!!!!!)

-If you applied some discipline and elbow grease as they come down they cannot hear you and cannot see you despite moving under use of PVS 14.
If they get suspicious and you get unlucky they might decide to illum your bush with a rifle mounted light... but guess what yes then they might see you.. but you also can see them and its ON and the ensuing firefight is at a much more level playing field. They will still have better target acquisition but you picked this spot for a reason right? you should have great field of fire and maybe even a bit of cover....

-Or another example they are moving past you.. you and your buddy wear gen 1 with an Otal on your rifle and/or an IR light for Illum (but neither are on as you wait!).
When they are in the killzone you turn on both .. Now you can see them. and they can see you.. Again visual (near ) parity is established but you have the edge of surprise and again they are in a killzone and you are not...


So in summary I do NOT discourage anyone from quipping themselves with a PVS14 and a DBAL or OTAL. Its possible to skip the helmet and wear a airsoft plastic helmet with built in PVS mounts. Not as good as milspec but still fairly robust and WILL work.
This might keep the total expense to 3500 bucks

BUT the point I am making above.. even though a PVS 14 especially in combination with a IR laser is the superior gear that many strive to own...it does not mean that lesser gear has no utility...especially to those who train with it.

It also does not mean that even if you have the more affordable gear this cant be made up by smart tactics and good fieldcraft even against  a lavishly equipped foe.

AND I think its  a bit of a strawman argument anyway to disregard gen 1 Stuff for that reason.... because who is to say that pVS14 guys will be your primary opponent?
What about the gang of thugs from town? The starving entitlement zombies?

All the limitations of gen1 will be fairly trivial against such opponents.

So if you absolutely cannot swing a PVS14 and IR laser such as OTAL or DBAL for your rifle then don't despair!

There ARE affordable units out there that will give you a lot of utility.
If I was in your shoes I would buy a Gen1 unit that I can mount on a helmet (mounts not included)

(On sale) https://www.botach.com/lancer-tactical-ca-725-pj-type-fast-helmet-w-rails-velcro/

And a IR capable light thats also an awesome white light (switchable) :

Also on sale: http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/flashlights-accessories/gun-mounted-flashlights/wml-white-ir-led-weapon-light-flat-dark-earth-sku100015377-53896-146525.aspx?cm_mmc=cse-_-Itwine-_-shoppingpla-_-Led%20Weapon%20Lights&gdffi=4c10f1ff40354714b834b0032f76348a&gdfms=FB73F94393D24510B967ACF799B6B053

And a gen1 unit thats mountable on helmet w/ a mount.
Why do I not link such a unit?
Because I have little personal experience beyond old army units with gen 1 and do not consider myself qualified to make specific buy recommendations..

But with a bit of elbow grease it should be doable to put together a credible night capability with a Gen1 unit + helmet above + light above for approx 500-600 dollars total (depending on where you source your mount).

This will enable you to see at night fairly well and also engage in point shooting at very short engagement distances.
(Which is all that can be expected in dense woods or in urban area anyhow)

Adding an OTAL will double your cost ,adding a DBAL will more than double it, but both should enable you to engage in aimed fire at night even when only using a gen 1 unit (The DBAL also has a visible laser component that the OTAL Lacks)

Also most components on this list (OTAL/DBAL, Lancer Helmet, Inforce IR capable WML) are 100% compatible with PVS 14 employment should you ever find yourself able to upgrade in the future.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 07:14:24 PM by Erick »
Every day, men who will follow orders to kill you, exercise. Do you?

brat

  • Guest
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2016, 06:05:45 PM »
Wow.... I can't thank you enough Erick for that write up. I appreciate, more than you know, your response.  :cheers:

Offline Erick

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2016, 06:46:23 PM »
Wow.... I can't thank you enough Erick for that write up. I appreciate, more than you know, your response.  :cheers:

Thank you for the kind words.. I am just glad it was understandable.  :dance:

I am not a great writer but more of a content guy and had to go back like 18 times to edit for clarity.
Please feel free to reread because I edited  a lot just now.  ^-^
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 07:11:57 PM by Erick »
Every day, men who will follow orders to kill you, exercise. Do you?

Offline Erick

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2016, 07:19:15 PM »
OTAL:
http://www.jrhenterprises.com/OTAL-Classic-with-Class-1-IR-Pointer-OTALCLASSIC.htm

DBAL:
(this is what I run on my rifle to aim at night via the IR laser visible via my PVS14.. This IR laser can be instant-on via a velcroed switch in your vertical front grip as I do...  but can also be just left on, or manipulated via a button on the unit)
http://www.jrhenterprises.com/DBAL-I2-IR-with-Visible-GREEN-laser-DBALGREEN.htm
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 07:21:59 PM by Erick »
Every day, men who will follow orders to kill you, exercise. Do you?

Offline Erick

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2016, 07:24:49 PM »
PS: you could buy an OTAL or DBAL last ..and in meantime still have some night fight capability with entry level NVG and a IR light on your rifle via short range point shooting .

Its not ideal but its something and just something may be plenty depending on the situation.

PS: These things are not cheap but they are the no-shit real deal.
My DBAL I got from JRH was made by Steiner Germany! It doesnt get any more professional than that!
And it also serves as a high quality visible light laser.
And IMO there still is a niche for that
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 09:10:31 PM by Erick »
Every day, men who will follow orders to kill you, exercise. Do you?

Offline CJS06

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 579
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Preliminary review FLIR Scout from JRH Enterprises
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2016, 11:09:54 PM »
Erick
great write up!  I have been using a PVS14 with a surfire illuminator and Dbal (or ATIPAL-C on a 2nd rifle).  Your write up was well written and spot on. 

I have just acquired a used ATN Odin thermal monocular that is built off of a PVS14 body. I will try to post a review after I get to spend some time using it.  My plan was to eventually set it up on my helmet opposite my pvs 14 on a Norotos bridge mount. This will allow me to swicth for thermal to NV depending on the benefit I am in need of.

Thanks Again