Unchained Preppers
General Category => D.I.Y. => Topic started by: APX808 on September 25, 2013, 02:23:06 PM
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Hey guys, I want to share with you a post that went viral here in Argentina.
Some guy posted a ton of pictures of him and his girlfriend making a house out of a cargo container.
The post is in Spanish, but it doesn't say much anyway, what is fun is to see the pictures, and how he built the house by himself without previous experience in construction.
The link is picture intensive. Check it at:
http://www.taringa.net/posts/hazlo-tu-mismo/17170943/Como-construi-integramente-mi-Casa-Container.html (http://www.taringa.net/posts/hazlo-tu-mismo/17170943/Como-construi-integramente-mi-Casa-Container.html)
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Cool! I'll have to share this with Mr. WPW. This was one of the things he'd talked about when we were planning our house out. (Note, I said "he" - I am far too traditional and wanted a house! ;) )
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Thanks for sharing that APX. Definitely food for thought.
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I have been looking for a container and as of this writing I have not been successful. I have googled the subject but what comes up really doesn't help me price out and then plan for one.
Any suggestions?
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JM, I Googled, "shipping container pennsylvania" and looks like it came up with some companies that sell them.
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The Argentinian guy says he looked for one at our local EBay, but then finished up buying one that was laying around in his city.
If you have a port area nearby you could go there to investigate.
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Yes Crudos you are correct however they want all types of info before they will give you a price. I just want a general price by size to see what I am getting into. I did give info to one company and a used car salesman called me again and again and would never give me a price range. :facepalm:
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I have been looking for a container and as of this writing I have not been successful. I have googled the subject but what comes up really doesn't help me price out and then plan for one.
Any suggestions?
JM try Ebay. I was looking at them awhile back. They have all sizes available.
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Come on now JMac, you want us to believe that old West Marine Johny got the hose on a cold call?
If that is what you are selling, I'm not buying.
Go out there and get 'em tiger!
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Thx Sledge...I will. :thumbsUp:
TG, you are too funny! To be honest with you I hate "used car salesman" - In person or via phone! However, (As you eluded to in your response) my heart isn't into it.
Nothing but nothing gets in the way of what MrsMac and I want/need.
I will renew my efforts :thumbsUp:
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Out in Az a 40' container has been around $4000.00 delivered!
And the 20' ones have been 2500.00 - 3000.00!
i have been told that the increase in price has to do with price
Of scrap steel !
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I just bought a 40 foot container for $2500. I think the prices are lower in port cities; I'm in Los Angeles.
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I just bought a 40 foot container for $2500. I think the prices are lower in port cities; I'm in Los Angeles.
Not a bad deal. How are you going to utilize it?
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Old thread but as the last question remains unanswered...
I've got 3 20-footers and will get a 4th soon I think. I'm currently in the process of converting two of them into somewhere we can live in. Bedroom and lounge room in one, kitchen and bathroom in the other, a covered and enclosed area between the two. The following photo is the state as of today, I just got the roof frame finished before beer o'clock.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/140610_9EJ1364.jpg)
It will not look very flash, in fact it's supposed to look rough and little more than just two containers.
Where I am a "new build" or "one time use" 20-foot container costs $4000, about $700 cheaper if you live in the city. 40 foot doesn't actually cost much more but in my case is not suitable.
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There is so much in this photo I wanna talk about!
How wide is the tan container on the left? It's it really wider or is that just perspective?
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There is so much in this photo I wanna talk about!
I'm happy to yak about this or anything else. We've been living under a tarp and/or in a truck for 15 years and will decant ourselves into the containers when they are finished. So I know a fair bit about this sort of off-grid living.
That's just perspective caused by the 17mm lens, they are all the standard width as I don't think there are any options in that regard. You can get higher but ours are standard height as well.
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Not trying to derail the thread here, but you've peaked my interest with that ride of yours.
Looks like a standard truck body with an aftermarket bed and cover, but the wheel appears to be disproportionally close to the cab in order to accommodate a full bed.
I bet it has a good story.
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It's a standard 75 series diesel Landcruiser with an 8-foot tray and fibreglass canopy.
(http://robgray.com/photos/images/140508_9EJ1310.jpg)
I'll be stripping it to make a camper in a year or so.
http://robgray.com/graynomad/gov/index.php (http://robgray.com/graynomad/gov/index.php)
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(http://i.imgur.com/D8onzks.gif]http://i.imgur.com/D8onzks.gif)
It appears that the trucks as well as the critters have evolved to survive on your continent.
I'm currently on the hunt for my own diesel and your example is preventing me from lowering my standards, thank you.
Your intended replacement is impressive too. And you designed the whole thing on CAD with every little detail.
If i'd be wearing a hat I'd tip it too ya.
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your example is preventing me from lowering my standards
Good to know I've been of some use :)
I like to do as much as possible with CAD, I still change things when building but at least I have a plan. The detail you can work with is great and you can hide/show layers to see what fits.
(http://www.robgray.com/temp/gov-fitout.jpg)
Walls and roof removed.
(http://www.robgray.com/temp/gov-frame.jpg)
Just showing subframe and power components.
(http://www.robgray.com/temp/gov-power.jpg)
Closeup of power bits in slide out frame, inverter, solar reg, DC/DC converter and LiFePo4 batteries.
(http://www.robgray.com/temp/gov-mounts.jpg)
Vehicle chassis and three-point mounting system.
I use Sketchup, not a full-blown CAD package but free and very good.
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Outdamnstanding graynomad! :thumbsup:
Welcome to the board, btw.
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Good God Gray! I can't even draw a 2"x6" in sketchup! You are a talented man for sure!
So back on track, how do you plan to insulate those sea cans? I ask because we use them as tool lockups in construction and to date all the attempts I've seen at insulating them were complete hack jobs except one where we did it my way.. Let the posting of Sinatra pick commence, lol.
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So the structure is independent from the frame and has a certain amount of "play"? is what I gather from your 3 point system.
I'm imagining this decreasing the force acted upon the structure during transportation, I doubt this would help out any passengers but it would save the mounting bolts and their seats in the long run. (not an engineer just build stuff designed to withstand crummy roads.)
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We have two threads going here but we are all smart enough to keep them going on this subject line.
TG, we finally got our container. We bought it from a local company going out of business for $1,000-. To have it shipped to the redoubt it cost us a case of beer and $100-. The beer was used figuring out how to get it off the trailer ;) We finally pushed it off using a backhoe and rolled in side over side till we got it approximately where it will end up. :tractor: There is nothing better than mixing alcohol and big machinery you know. :o
The plan is to bury it in the side of a large knoll near the cabin. It will be completely covered with earth except for the front doors. Over the door end of the container there will be a "ships peak" roof for extra protection. The container will have a intake and outtake 4" pvc pipe that will be baffled to prevent rain/snow from coming into the container via the pipe.
The goal is to use the container for "root cellar" storage in the winter with the hope that the temp will not go below 35 degrees F in the deepest freeze of the winter which was about -10 degrees F last winter.
In the summer we may rent it out to some illegal South American children. :sarcasm:
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DO NOT BURY THAT SEACAN.
(http://www.containerhome.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/underground-shipping-container.jpg)
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/525bf19be4b0ef380880b287/t/536972c3e4b00159622103f5/1399419589778/)
Fixed link. ~ s-k
You're gonna have a bad time.
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Well that sucks!
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how do you plan to insulate those sea cans?...except one where we did it my way
Not sure yet, yes they do get very hot. One of them is under the trees and it's never too warm, the other is half covered in solar panels so that gives it a tropical roof, so far that's not got very hot either but as that will be the living room I do need to pay attention to insulating it.
The main thing it to keep the sun off, so a tropical roof does that mostly, then allow for a LOT of ventilation, in our case large windows with shutters to shade them. And finally insulation, at present I'm thinking to put bats between the lining and the wall, but a lot of people use spray foam which is good because it forms a vapour barrier so you don't get any condensation inside the walls. I will look into the cost of that.
You can also clad and insulate on the outside, technically I think that is better but I want ours to look like containers so that's not an option for us.
We've been living in what is essentially a container (the truck) for 13 years, with 3/4" of closed-cell foam, thermal paint, solar panels and huge openings it's been very comfortable up to 42C even when parked in direct sun, so I guess I'm not to worried about this for the containers.
I am interested to here what you did.
So the structure is independent from the frame and has a certain amount of "play"? is what I gather from your 3 point system.
Correct, as done on most 4x4 trucks and indeed my current truck. It works well and isolates the body from the torsion produced in the chassis. If you don't do that you will get a bent body with most off road vehicles although it depends on the vehicle. Some have stiff chassis and long-travel suspension, some have flexible chassis and bugger-all suspension. In the first case you don't have to worry much, in the second case you do.
Check these pics of my truck
(http://robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot1/diaries/diary_24/pic_1.jpg)
(http://robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot1/diaries/diary_24/pic_3.jpg)
(http://robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot1/diaries/diary_24/pic_6.jpg)
This was while I was testing the chassis twist, that's a 10-degree twist at the rear of the truck and it's all in the chassis as the suspension on these International ACCOs is basically non-existant.
I'm imagining this decreasing the force acted upon the structure during transportation
Correct.
I doubt this would help out any passengers
Possibly, but there will be no passengers in this.
We have two threads going here but we are all smart enough to keep them going on this subject line.
Yes, got a bit side tracked. I hope it's OK.
There is nothing better than mixing alcohol and big machinery you know.
Yeah, a great combination :)
The plan is to bury it in the side of a large knoll near the cabin.
You can bury them but take note of thatGuy's post :) Containers are very strong on the corners as they are designed for huge vertical loads on those points, everywhere else is not so strong.
I've seen it done by building gabion walls around the sides to handle the pressure, they would also help with drainage which is a problem if you aren't on the side of a hill. The roof I'm not sure about, depends on how deep you want I guess, but that will need re-enforcing as well. Container rooves are spec'd to carry two men only and even then not standing too close to reduce the point loading.
EDIT:
This guy seems to have got away with it with just insulation on the sides, go figure.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Underground-Seacan-Emergency-Quarters/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Underground-Seacan-Emergency-Quarters/)
Personally I'd be inclined to do more and the gabions seem right to me.
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We have two threads going here but we are all smart enough to keep them going on this subject line.
Yes, got a bit side tracked. I hope it's OK.
Mea Culpa (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mea%20culpa) everyone...
I've created a new topic for the vehicle with all prior pertaining comments.
http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/d-i-y/gray-nomad%27s-vehicle-topic/new/#new (http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/d-i-y/gray-nomad%27s-vehicle-topic/new/#new)
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Back to container houses, got a couple of walls up on mine over the last few days, here's one of them.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/140623_9EJ1390.jpg)
Simple post and plank construction to enclose the area between the two containers.
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Love this thread. Here in Florida I've been looking at
http://www.equipmenttraderonline.com/Cargo-Containers/search-results?category=Cargo+Containers%7C2011132 (http://www.equipmenttraderonline.com/Cargo-Containers/search-results?category=Cargo+Containers%7C2011132)
for getting containers. Low prices
I was once told you can bury old school buses, they won't cave in.
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you can bury old school buses, they won't cave in.
That may be, but I'd let you go inside first :)
It's quite likely that are stronger in the walls than a container because they are presumably designed to protect the little kiddies if there's an accident. The windows would be an issue I think though.
Some good prices there, note how there's naff all difference in cost between a 10, 20 and 40 footers.
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So an open question to the group on this subject: We want to bury our sea can. What is the forums recommendations on doing that without collapsing the sides/roof?
My first thought would be building a load bearing wall/roof using 4x4's and plywood.
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Hello Johnymac
I found this site regarding burying a cargo container:
http://www.prepper-resources.com/burying-the-box-shipping-container-tips/ (http://www.prepper-resources.com/burying-the-box-shipping-container-tips/)
It doesn't answer all questions but it's a start.
If it were me, I would look into old school buses. Buses were engineered to withstand the pressures. I remember seeing a show where a man buried like 30 buses and had a huge compound underground. They've been buried for many years and no problems.
The best part is the bus doesn't need to run, should be able to buy cheap.
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Thx OM, but have already purchased and delivered the sea box :cheers:
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I saw one where he made a gabion wall around the box and placed pre-cast concrete beams over the top, that would be my first choice. I don't know if drainage will be an issue where you are but the gabions would be good for that. I would also place the box on four foundations to keep the floor off the ground, I'm a big fan of allowing air flow all around them. Basically I would build a self-supporting cave and place the container inside it, so you almost could ask "Why have the container in the first place?" :)
This would not be a cheap option though, well it could be as the gabions cost almost nothing if you have a good supply of rocks and maybe you can find some second hand concrete beams.
Any timber will eventually rot unless it's a very arid area so arid or not there should be good drainage unless it never rains.
I have a mate who half buried one, IIRC all he did was bitumen the outside, cut a hole into a bank, put the box in and backfilled. But that has nothing on the roof and the dirt is right up to the top at the back tapering down to nothing at the front so the forces would not have been great.
All that said, and bearing in mind that I am in no way a mechanical/civil engineer, my gut feeling is that if the area is arid a 4x4 frame with maybe 1" ply or formply would be strong enough. Built so the top beams act as a spreader for the side beams, ie they are "inside" them and hold the sides apart. This assumes there's not much weight on the top. I would use a lot of 4x4 beams though, maybe one every 2 feet or so.
If there is a lot of dirt on the top maybe run two RSJs along the edges that are supported on the corners and place the 4x4s on them.
I tend to over engineer everything and the the guy in the link I posted before just used Styrofoam insulation on the sides. Honestly I would say what he did was not good enough, and he had what looks like old railway sleepers across the roof to spread the load but they themselves were only supported by the container sides, that's not on as the sides are not load bearing. The sleepers resting on RSJs which in turn are supported by the corners would be ok I think. It looks like that project is about 3 years old, it would be good to see if it all worked out.
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I guess I should share the vision of what we are going to do.
This buried container will only have MAYBE one foot of dirt over the roof and it will be blocked off in a way that nobody would drive across it with a tractor, bulldozer or truck. It was going to be installed in a knoll hollowed out with a dozer and back-haul.
Based on the fact shipping containers are piled 5 or 6 high on ships that regularly go across oceans I never thought there would be an issue.
The container is going to be used as a root cellar not to live in.
Based on what i have read, I suppose I will have to build a shell around the sides and roof. The base was going to be just crushed stone and I think that will be just fine.
I will use 2x8's for the rafters placed with 16" centers. The rafters will be lag bolted into the weather treated 4x4' columns. On the rafters I will place 1" sheets of 4x8' plywood. On the sides I will use 5/8" plywood nailed to the columns. Hopefully this will prevent the "oil canning" affect for at least 20 years. After that I will most likely be eating pablum with no teeth or dead. It will be my nephew and nieces problem at that point.
Thoughts?
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How about PVC tubing? Line the sides with it. Transfer the majority of the stress to the frame of the container instead of the walls.
I'd imagine it would be more cost effective then steel or concrete, it would also last for ever.
Just a thought...
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As long as PVC would as cost effective as 4x4" pleasure treated columns. It sure would last for ever ;-)
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As long as PVC would as cost effective as 4x4" pleasure treated columns. It sure would last for ever ;-)
"pleasure treated columns" :o
What kind of wild PVC do you have out there JM? ;)
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Based on the fact shipping containers are piled 5 or 6 high on ships that regularly go across oceans I never thought there would be an issue.
I think the spec calls for stacking up to 10 or maybe even 14 high, and then you have the dynamic forces as that column of containers moves with the ship. So they are incredibly strong, but only for vertical loads on the corners, the infills (sides and especially the roof) are quite weak.
I will use 2x8's for the rafters placed with 16" centers.
Presumably mounted vertically like floor joists.
Thoughts?
As I said I'm not qualified but my feeling is that what you describe would be pretty good.
PVC pipes are not very strong until you get to the larger sizes, maybe 12" or more. I bought a stack of 2" to make a roof frame and decided it was no good. That said I reckon a wall of vertical PVC pipes filled with concrete would be a good way to do it. That would be a very simple method of building a concrete barrier as there is no formwork required. You could set brackets into the concrete at the top of each pillar to mount the joists that span the roof, and the barrier itself would be impervious to water and last forever.
None of the things we are talking about protect the container from water though, I think a liberal coating of bitumen or similar would be a good idea.
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Update, half the roof on and slow combustion stove almost installed.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/140727_9EJ1424.jpg)
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I'm with Gray, I don't feel qualified to give a real answer and over build everything. That said I would,
Pour reinforced concrete bond beams (under the columns and 4' on center, 6"x6" at least) under the can that tied into a 6" thick reinforced concrete wall with a beamed slab poured over the top of the container but at that rate you don't need the can anyhow..
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Gray, on the topic of insulation we've had good luck with spray foam but for a house I assume you're gonna want to finish the walls and blasting screws though your seacan probably isn't gonna work for you.. Right??
If I was going to live in it I would pick up some steel stud and matching slip track. You can get those studs in 1 5/8" iirc which is enough to fit electrical boxes in. I would put down some plastic so the foam doesn't f'up your floor and lay the track right over it and screw them down tight to the wall. I would stop that wall so I could lay the studs for my lid over the top. I would go with 3 1/2" 16g stud cause drywall gets heavy and by screwing the top track of the wall you get to avoid putting any screw though the can.
I would then hang my boxes, pull my wire and shoot the foam. Then I would trim the foam flush with the studs, clean out my boxes, hang the lid and then the walls. A little tape, texture, paint and wiring in the receptacles should make it feel up town. Cut the plastic and throw your base board on and stand by to be showered with love.
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Yeah, putting screws through the walls will be frowned upon :)
I would trim the foam flush with the studs
With what? A wire stretched between studs? Or just hack away with a knife?
Also, how would you fix the studs to the steel wall?
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I wouldn't attach the studs to the wall, I would attach them to the joist in the ceiling.
My logic is you can put a flimsy box into a sturdy one and have it be sound provided you've got a tight fit.
I've always seen handsaw blades used. The butchers that do the foam work pull the handle off and weld two bolts to it as handles so it 'cuts' flush down the studs.
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Ah yes I see, no need to use fasteners on the internal box, maybe some adhesive to make it all nice and tight.
Good trick with the saw blade, I need to think more outside the box :) I will research the cost of the foam in these parts. I just bought these
(http://www.robgray.com/temp/xcut-saws.jpg)
Maybe I can re-purpose one of them, nah that would be a waste, I'll get a $10 saw form the hardware store.
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Christ Almighty Gray, if you even dream about welding anything to those beautiful buck saws you'd better double check the tree line for me!
Here I was thinking I'm the only one who loves old saws... I've got a crosscut bucksaw, still need a rip tooth and a misery whip.
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I better get into :hiding: eh :) :)
No I won't be touching these apart from a clean, sharpen and set. I just got a Stanley #43 saw set so before long I'll have to learn the fine art of saw sharpening/setting. I'll never be a expert at that but these are going to be working saws so I have to be able to keep them in good shape.
As you can see they are set up for two man, I'm by myself so will either move the handles or just add some in case I have someone visiting who needs the exercise. I probably paid a little over the top for these but they are in good nick, some cheap ones have almost no gullet left they've been sharpened so much. Also I didn't want a peg and raker tooth pattern because I think that's a lot harder to set. So when I saw these three I just grabbed them.
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Believe it or not saw filing isn't so difficult, it is time consuming and boring..
That said there is nothing better than a sharp saw flying though green wood, even if you over paid!
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([url]http://www.robgray.com/temp/xcut-saws.jpg[/url])
Maybe I can re-purpose one of them, nah that would be a waste, I'll get a $10 saw form the hardware store.
Maybe like this?
http://youtu.be/d3_KhntMjRk (http://youtu.be/d3_KhntMjRk)
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That fueled the hate Burt..
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Oooo, now where's my plasma cutter ;D
Actually I am setting up a smithy and knife making is one of the things on the agenda, but don't worry the saws are safe, I can't say the same for any old car springs though.
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I like you more and more each day Gray.
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Don't hate the playa hate the game, yo.... O0
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My buck saw when I bought it had an idyllic scene painted on it with oil paint.. I'll never understand how that part of the world works. There is a finite amount of sweet old stuff in the world and I would imagine with the exploding population that the demand for that limited resource is still there. Oh to think of all the anvils that were melted down to make Sherman tanks..
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The photo of the saws I posted was from the eBay listing, they were set up as a display but at least were spared the indignity of having a scene painted on them :)
I'm buying old tools for practical reasons, at least that's what I tell myself, but I just like them for what they are as well.
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There is something to be said for using a sharp saw instead of a chain saw.
There is something wildly practical about collecting old tools and honoring them.
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Another quick update. Got one of the doors made, done the roof and finished cladding one of the containers.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/140809_9EJ1432.jpg)
First door done. It weighs about 200kgs (440lbs)
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/140809_9EJ1433.jpg)
Detail of the support straps.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/140728_9EJ1430.jpg)
Crap flu mounts replaced with something a little beefier.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/140804_9EJ1431.jpg)
Roof finished, flue needs another extension before it's finished.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/140812_9EJ1440.jpg)
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/140812_9EJ1438.jpg)
Cladding of C3 mostly done.
We discussed insulation before, this cladding has has an amazing effect, after 2-3 hours of sun on that wall it used to be so hot you could barely hold you hand on it, now it's actually cool to the touch.
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It's beautiful GN ...
Is bottom left of img # 4 your water tank?
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Yes that's one of them, we have two.
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Damn that is looking good Gray!
I love that you used those rods in tension, its a New Mexican past time to make wooden gates with the brace in tension but made out of wood.. Which is ass backwards.. Like my state..
What kind of wood are you using for the cladding?
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It's just treated pine 8x2" planks. They shrink to blazes and gaps will appear, but we keep telling ourselves it's supposed to be rustic :)
I used tension braces with turn buckles so I could make adjustments over time if it starts to sag, also they allowed me to pull the gate into square when it was finished as I don't think it's possible to allow for all that weight when initially welding the frame. At least I don't know how to.
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Take a couple of those planks and lay them down in the same sun so when the ones on the house shrink you will have matching (weather wise) planks to put on the end.
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Good idea, have a couple of pre-weathered spares.
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what are you planning for electrical system?
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One container is already wired for 240VAC, the rest will be as well. Probably no DC, unlike previous motorhome builds.
The source of the AC is the solar system and inverter in our motorhome, there is underground wiring already in place between the truck and containers. At present we plan to keep the truck so that system will do the job, however it's possible I will sell the truck when the containers are liveable, in that case I'll add a solar system to the containers.
In either case for backup we have two generators and I'm looking into using a Stirling engine as a petrol-free generator and maybe even building a peltier panel to get power from the stove's heat.
I am quite prepared to sell the truck, trouble is I doubt I'd find a buyer.
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Great stuff! How is the container set above the ground? Looks like concrete pillars or blocks? How far below the ground do they go? Is the container actually bolted to the pillar/blocks? Trying to get ideas of the best way to anchor a similar structure.
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I am quite prepared to sell the truck, trouble is I doubt I'd find a buyer.
What price would you ask?
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Crudos, you're not going to like the answer. The containers are just sitting on concrete blocks that in turn are just sitting on the ground. No foundations, nothing connected to anything else. I did this partly because originally they were supposed to be just 1 or 2 storage containers for junk, but then the ideas grew. Also if they don't have foundations they are not considered to be a structure by the council (I think) and because everything I am doing is without permission that seemed like a good idea at the time.
The trouble with all that is that a) it's fast becoming quite clear that these are not just a couple of boxes to store our wheel barrows in, and b) the shelter I've built between the two containers has some of it's vertical members set into concrete foundations. So I no longer know how the whole enchilada stands officially, and I don't want to find out. Fortunately our council is very lenient about alternative living arrangements out here on rural blocks.
Burt, not sure you'll like the answer either :) and bear in mind that motorhomes cost a lot more in Oz than in the US. If I was to advertise the truck I would start at $100k I think and work down from there. The trouble is that it's such an unusual beast that most people would not want it, OTOH there would be a few people around that just love it. When I was thinking of selling Mk1 I had two people interested and I advertised that for $300k so the people are out there. I can tell you that $100k is pretty much the cost of the materials, I don't count my labour but it would be nice to at least get enough to build something else plus finish the house and have a few bob in the bank as we are pretty skint right now.
I've been following a build on the Overland forum and that guy is spending about US$400k just on the box, the truck is extra.
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You could always try ebay.... :o
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For the record I loved both of those answers!
There is some freedom in knowing what 'its' worth.
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Thanks Gray, was just curious. Looks awesome regardless. :thumbsup:
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graynomad - thats some beautiful craftsmanship there :) and a lot of sweat - which presumably means blood and tears too - at least it does when I build something :p
Here's a question.
I am considering using a shipping container as the basis for a safe room (for a nursery / kindergarten where I live).
Reasons:
The existing buildings have too many weak points - doors windows, walls, roof - all need upgrading.
We can get a shipping container 'sea-can'(?!) pretty cheap - 'off the back of a lorry' allegedly!!!
The can would be easier and cheaper to ventilate and provide toilet and water for.
Can weld drop down bars on the inside to keep the doors closed.
There are two main identified threats here:
1. stray ordinance (mortars and AK rounds primarily)
2. direct threat from looters (robbery, kidnap, rape, violence)
I'm not expecting it to stop high energy projectiles - although the water store area inside might help there.
We can supplement protection on the outside with sandbags or earth berms - but have limited funds for phase one at least (especially after providing all the other amenities inside)
So *ahem* the question - how strong is it - in particular the walls?
Someone said that they are easy to get through with an axe? Machete?
When SHTF here the power goes out - so unless someone has a petrol angle grinder - its hand tools only for breaking in.
The only other real threat would be someone with a 4x4 and a tow rope (and pull the door off)
Or they could smoke us out - but thats a different problem.
What might the walls stop in terms of low energy projectiles? I expect its a .22 handgun at best?
And here's a thought - the cans have a strong floor - they are designed to carry a lot of weight (25000kg) So presumably the floor is more solid than the roof? In that case why not turn the thing upside down for added security? As long as its supported at the corners...
Thanks :)
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graynomad has a lot more experience on this subject however here is my 2 cents worth as I just buried a 40' shipping container. When the project is done I will write up a article and post in the DYI section.
The roof on mine was 1/8 steel, the walls were 1/16th steel and floor is 3/4" oak on steel joists. My brother and sister in-law was up at the redoubt over the Labor Day holiday. They inspected what had been accomplished and my sister in-law said, "this would be a great place to bunker-down in a SHTF scenario." I then asked her, there is only one way in: How would you escape if the bunker was found out?" She just stared at me a bit red faced.
IMO, using a shipping container as a safe room or bunker-down location would be foolish if you were to use it for said reason for more than 12 hours of when the carvery Calvary will arrive to save your butt.
Not writing this to bust your balls just for some food for thought. :cheers:
Edit = JMC carvery for calvary :facepalm: :lmfao:
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Thanks for your thoughts :) And no worries RE ball busting - as with all design its not 'my' design but 'the' design - I have no attachment to it, and I love not knowing, asking questions, and learning :D
'carvery'! *eek*
Well - the hope is that the cavalry would arrive - the safe room just gives us some extra time.
The thing is that the cavalry might not be able to come - for various reasons. And the more serious the situation, the less safe the streets will be, or the more likely the cavalry will be busy on other things - and so the less likely they will come. The expectation is that there will be time in a breakdown of law and order to extract, and any looters would be more busy picking the low lying fruit. We have children from a dozen different nationalities here - each with their own extraction plans and capabilities, from the americans - who would probably send a tank (or at least an armoured and armed LC) - to private individuals whose companies' emergency plans don't go much beyond ensuing business continuity after a SHTF situation.
But I think we can make something within budget that is very very hard to get into at all for people without power tools. However I've been advised otherwise (i.e. the axe!) and here I just don't know - I've never tried cutting 1/8" steel with an axe. There's other ways in too - e.g. the smoke-out would be tricky to mitigate for. Disguising and hiding the thing seems the best way (labelling it as containing 'bricks' or something), then trying to keep the kids quiet (!!!!). Plus - locating it somewhere that its hard to get a vehicle to prevent pulling the thing apart (a low wall and fence will up after installation for other reasons) . In terms of handtools - I don't think there are many axes around… the locals even use machetes for felling fairly big trees. But maybe you can get through the side with a machete too - in which case… hmm...
An escape route would be ideal (I really really hate the idea of lockdown myself). We have the same problem at our home too - the last place I want to be if SHTF is blind in a cage. Its INSANITY! However… It seems we are kinda stuck on the lock-down option - as trying to move 30 kids and ten adults is not going to be easy to do secretly, or safely. I have recced a couple of routes out of the location to safe(r) places - but there are issues here too. In fact there's a whole set of self-extraction contingency plans I have lined up. Including bribing a local army officer to give us an armed escort, or disguising vehicles as Red Cross. Its all too unpredictable - so the plans are more like a brainstorming of options.
An escape route would be ideal - a tunnel perhaps. But we don't have the funds right now. Maybe that's for phase 2 of construction. In any case we would back the container onto an outside toilet block and create a lockable secret? door between. It also means more comfortable toilets, sinks etc for a 'soft' lockdown.
Would it be good to post the whole plan somewhere here on unchainedpreppers - as a kind of case study?
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Yeah TS, you have to watch out for that carvery :lmfao:
A quick story on our "root cellar" trailer.
Step 1: Find a trailer, buy it and have it delivered. Trick, use a bulldozer to push off trailer. Pay delivery team with
beer
Step 2: Dig a 12'x50' trench. Plan extra money for equipment breakdowns :facepalm:
Step 3: Put trailer in trench. Actually this was easy.
Step 4: Answer all of the questions about 'said trailer' in trench from the towns folks. In retrospeck we should have sold tickets. This would have off-set the expenses of fixing the back-hoe :facepalm:
Step 5: Installing supports within the trailer to support back filling the trench and covering the trailer
Step 6: Install a passive circulating air system. Think dorade vents (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorade_box)
Step 7: Covering the trailer with dirt without collapsing 'said' trailer
Step 8: Seeding the area and planting plants strategically around air intake/outtake stacks.
Step 9: Building a fence on the buried trailer at the steep end so four and two legged critters do no fall over 12'
drop.
Step 4 is the tough part ;)
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graynomad - thats some beautiful craftsmanship there :) and a lot of sweat - which presumably means blood and tears too - at least it does when I build something :p
....
So *ahem* the question - how strong is it - in particular the walls?
Someone said that they are easy to get through with an axe? Machete?
When SHTF here the power goes out - so unless someone has a petrol angle grinder - its hand tools only for breaking in.
The only other real threat would be someone with a 4x4 and a tow rope (and pull the door off)
Or they could smoke us out - but thats a different problem.
What might the walls stop in terms of low energy projectiles? I expect its a .22 handgun at best?
And here's a thought - the cans have a strong floor - they are designed to carry a lot of weight (25000kg) So presumably the floor is more solid than the roof? In that case why not turn the thing upside down for added security? As long as its supported at the corners...
Thanks :)
Thanks, it probably looks better in the photos than real life :)
I haven't shot my containers (yet) but my gut feeling is that they would be good for a 22, we have 2" of wood with a gap to the steel so maybe even a 22 from a long gun. But I'm far from being a ballistics expert.
I can't really see an axe getting through, sure it might make a cut but to gain access you need several feet of cut in a U shape, can't see that happening under a week. Machete, don't even think about it unless your local machetes are a lot better than ours.
A person with an angle grinder can get into anything in a few minutes, 30 at the most I reckon. $100 for a generator and $20 for a grinder. And the other threats like fire, 4x4 etc will work as well. Personally I would not like to be caught inside a container without an escape route.
The floors are 32mm (IIRC, certainly a lot thicker than JohnyMac's 3/4" (19mm)) ply and very strong, yes much stronger than the roof. Upside down might work, but they would pool water on the "roof".
It sounds like you have a real different situation to most of us, I can't even imagine how you would protect 30 kids. Tunnels etc can work but if you don't do all the work yourself every man and his dog will know about it.
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Thanks for your reply dude :)
I'm glad to hear you think it will be hard to cut into with an axe - I'm guessing you are right - I'll just have to try it out somehow.
I lived on a houseboat in London for a few years - a converted landing craft from WW2 - you couldn't even drill the walls to put a shelf up - some seriously hard steel there!
Its tricky to balance the different bits of advice I'm getting on this: on the one hand we are being told the only real risk is stray mortars - but on the other hand all our people's properties have to have bars installed on the windows. I'll make more enquiries - but ultimately even the best advice is only that - advice. And ultimately you gotta trust your own judgement.
You're right about the tunnel - its gotta be covert to work - and I think the first looters on this site would be concession employees. Fortunately they would be distracted by several warehouse full of beer nearby!!!
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I lived on a houseboat in London for a few years - a converted landing craft from WW2
I am envious, that's something I'd love to do. I lived in Little Venice for a while and walked along the Regents canal all the time, I would love to live on those canals, but that would not be so great in SHTF days though :)
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Regents Canal and Little Venice :D know it well - very pretty. I lived in Camden for a few years - walked down the canal to work every day. But the houseboat was in Kingston - much more refined ;) Good memories rowing to the pubs, misty mornings, pumping out the bilges, all that.
I'd love a yacht one day… I used to sail a lot, and it seems like a good escape plan maybe.
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Some of the best preppers take to the seas in small boats.
I have many friends who have circumnavigated the globe or are in the process of doing so. A few that just lived on a boat because they can/could (MrsMac & I) and like the lifestyle.
While working at West Marine, I helped many to outfit their boat so that they will be self sufficient thousands of miles from land and or a friendly West Marine store. One guy (LA Lawyer) had a replacement or repair kit for EVERY thing on his sailboat. It was a bit excessive but what the heck, he and his wife spent A LOT!
Actually, I am always surprised that more people do not take the route of outfitting a sail or efficient trawler instead of buying land then building the family redoubt on it. Gadget99, is moving in that direction. :thumbsUp:
This is not written to change the existing thread. Maybe a new topic in DIY
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Some of the best preppers take to the seas in small boats.
if you can swing it, it is an interesting option. mobility can mean life.
I was thinking of bidding on a skipjack in the 80's - a working single masted sail boat common to the Chesapeake bay.
I now live hours (by highway) inland :) the boat idea was a bit more than I was ready to chew off then.
Kudos.
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Quick heads up on the container house, it's coming along slowly.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/141114_9EJ1497.jpg)
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/141027_9EJ1481.jpg)
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/141030_9EJ1487.jpg)
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/141115_9EJ1505.jpg)
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Looking good GN! :thumbsup:
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Yeah Graynomad... What Crudos wrote and you rock!
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Thanks guys, yeah I think it's looking pretty good, progress is slow due to me having too many other interests but I'm getting there.
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Yeah I hear ya'...All the other stuff I want to do gets put off too. :facepalm:
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Progress pics
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/150414_9EJ1601.jpg)
Shade sail for a carport.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/150418_9EJ1605.jpg)
Lounge and kitchen (at rear) almost finished.
Should have a lot more done really but have been sidetracked by other pursuits :), getting really interested in black powder.
(http://www.robgray.com/photos/images/DSC03483_2.jpg)
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That lounge looks awesome man!
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Thanks, yeah it's coming along slowly.
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I love Black Powder firearms. Keep in mind that black powder was used in modern firearms up till WW I. Heck even the tried and true 30/30 was originally loaded with BP. Not to mention:
44/40
45/70,80,90 Government
45 Long Colt
38 short Colt
Etcetera.
Then there is always the cap & ball six gun that won the west or the front stuffers that won many a battle. I think I wrote a bunch of stuff on BP rifles somewhere on this site. ;)
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Yeah I'm really getting hooked on BP. I don't know if it's much good for SHTF but it's great for SLOF (Shit Load Of Fun).
I'm about to buy a BP muzzle loader, almost certainly a Pederseli Tryon Match at this point.
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Pederseli makes a great rifle.