Unchained Preppers

General Category => D.I.Y. => Topic started by: JohnyMac on June 22, 2021, 01:32:48 PM

Title: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on June 22, 2021, 01:32:48 PM
2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/feature-image-solar-system-6_22_2021-v2.png)

I am going to publish this off grid solar system review, all on one thread as opposed to three sperate articles. Hence, you will need to return often as I will be adding new information.

The agenda will be

> Background of why,
> Set-up outside, racking, and solar panels,
> Setup inside, batteries and electronics, and finally
> Results and overall costs.

We currently have a 4Kw petrol generator that we have used for back-up when the electricity goes down at the redoubt. We hate to turn it on as it is noisy and uses a tank of petrol every 12 hours or so. Typically, we only turn it on when the electric has been out for 8 hours and only for our freezers and refrigerators. The generator is only fired up when I am home. If I am traveling and the electric goes out the neighbor comes over to start it up as my wife just can not do this function. Consequently, we have been looking at adding solar to augment our current needs if the electric goes out for years.

To be self-sufficient, we needed a system that produced 13 Kwh/a day which when I started the process of inquiring into solar, the prices were way above our means - Somewhere in the $18,000- range. This year’s search, I lowered my expectations a bit to 7 Kwh/a day. That estimate came in around $13,000- which was still way above our means.

A bit disillusioned it finally came to me, we were trying to take the generator out of the equation that we only used for the freezers and refrigerator. I did a quick calculation and determined we only needed 3.5Kwh/a day to run the appliances. I asked for a quote from several different companies and all the quotes came back in the $8,200- range which was manageable for our budget.

One of the companies that we had quotes from was running a sale on in-house inventory, so I vetted the company and decided to go with them. The company was altE (https://www.altestore.com/store/). The final cost using a cash discount of 3% was, $7,800-.

We could have probably saved a few additional bucks by piecemealing components from several solar companies however, I wanted one source to go to for,

> Knowledge,
> Product guarantees if something went wrong, and
> A company that made sure I had all the correct components, One and Done.

The shipment arrived 10-days after the purchase via common carrier on 2-pallets. We live in a very remote part of Pennsylvania on a two-track township dirt road. Knowing that there would be nowhere for the 18-wheeler to turn around I met the truck out on the dirt state road. I instructed the truck driver to back up onto my road to a level spot on the road. The tucker was incredibly happy that he did not have to back down the road a half a mile to the cabin. The tuck had a lift gate and pallet jack, so the pallets were off loaded quickly.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/solar-delivery-1-of-2-5_17_2021-rotated-e1621426363887.jpg)

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/solar-delivery-2-of-2-5_17_2021-e1621426557429.jpg)

As the truck pulled away, I looked at my watch and thought I would have this loaded into the bucket of my Kubota tractor and into the cellar in about two hours. Plenty of time before lunch - I was wrong.

As I was standing there trying to figure out how to load six, 4' x 7', 67-pound solar panels onto the back of my F150, a turkey hunter came walking down my road returning from his morning spring hunt.

We chatted for a bit and I asked him if he would help me load the panels onto my truck. He whole heartedly agreed and in no time had the truck loaded. Drove the truck down to the cabin and parked it. As I was walking back to the head of the road, I saw my neighbor grabbing a bale of hay for his Scottish Highland Cattle. He asked me what I was up to, and I bent his ear for a few minutes. He offered to help me if needed as he would be around all day.

In no time, my neighbor and I had the solar panels off the truck and stacked near where they will be used. More on that later. Once that task completed, I walked back down the road head to get the rest of the contents of our solar system.

Once the assorted boxes and 11-foot box containing four IronRidge solar panel rails that the panels will lay on, I was only down to the eight 127-pound deep cycle batteries. They were tough to get onto the tractor bucket but with a lot of pushing and pulling that task was completed, I was off to the cellar the new home for the batteries.

If I thought it was tough getting the batteries off the pallet and onto the tractor bucket, it was twice as hard getting them off the bucket and the 20-feet they needed to travel into the cellar. My shoulder still hurt as I type this article.

I picked up the empty pallets and assorted packaging material and I glanced at my watch and it was 1600 hrs. OUCH!

The plan that altE and I agreed on was to install the solar panels at ground level for easy maintenance especially in the winter when snow becomes an issue, on the south side of the cabin. The design gave the racking the ability to change angle twice a year to make best use of the angle of the sun.

The racking would consist of two racks of three solar panels each, due to the weight of the racking and panels (estimated at this point 270-pounds per each panel rack). Each rack would be secured at one side to a 1/2-inch black pipe secured to the columns of my porch. The other end would go up and down using 1?-inch perforated square tube nestled into 1 1/2-inch perforated square tube to produce a telescoping column.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Square-tube-perforated-columns-6_22_2021-v2.png)
Telescoping columns

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Beams-attached-to-pipe-6_22_2021-v2.png)
2" x 6" x 8' treated wood beams attached to 1/2" pipe.


(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Pipe-clamps-attached-to-beams-6_22_2021-v2.jpg)
Pipe clamps affixed to end of beams and pipe

Between the porch secured black pipe and the telescoping columns were three 2'x 6'x 8' pressure treated wood beams. This is what the 11-feet of solar panel rails are attached too. The solar panels would be secured to are fastened to the rails.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Iron-ridge-grip-cap-and-rail-6_22_2021-v2.png)
IRONRIDGE 'grip caps' and rails attached to beams.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/ironridge-rails-for-panels-6_22_2021-v2.png)
IRONRIDGE panel rails attached to 'grip caps' just before columns are attached.

Due in part to other responsibilities like the garden going in, visiting my mom about three hours away, receiving my tri-axle of wood for the coming winter, et cetera, it took me about ten days to build the racking. All told around 40-hours.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Racking-John-McEwing-6_7_2021-e1623157800771.jpg)
Racking done!

Once the racking was completed, I drafted my 17-year-old neighbor to help with putting the solar panels onto the IRONRIDGE (https://www.ironridge.com/ground-based/) solar panel rails and securing them with specific bolts from the same outfit. The bolts fit into the well thought out rails at the recommended 80 in/pound torque.

Playing with 42"x 7', 67-pound panels over your head in 90-degree unseasonable heat, was not a lot of fun. Working around my neighbor's schedule and life, it took about two weeks to finally finish this part of the build and to stand back and admire the work we had done.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/panels-up-6_22_2021-V2.png)
Panels Up! The racking is done

Feel free to ask any questions using this thread. Over the next couple of weeks, on rainy days that prevent me from cutting firewood and working in the garden, I will be wiring up the system.

Stand by....

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/liberty-tree-12_27_2020-V7-Thumbnail.png)


Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: grizz on June 23, 2021, 11:36:14 AM
 :cheers:
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on July 15, 2021, 07:43:55 AM
Wires hung and inside the cellar from the solar panels. The solar panel distribution box, E-panel, and SW inverter hung. I have yet to install the controller as I do not want to hang it and then have to move it because it is in the way of other wire runs.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/control-panel-7_15_2021-v2.png)

Trying to find #4, 6, 8, and 10/2 and 3 Romex wire is pretty hard right now. Like lumber, Romex wire is tough to find and if you can find the wire, it is a small fortune. Consequently, I have ordered individual wire by color and size - Should be here by Monday. I would have rather used Romex, as I wouldn't have had to fish wire through conduit. Oh well, the life of a prepper.

More detail on this in the near future. Just didn't want the readers here at Unchainedpreppers to think I had gone dark on the install. Been working primarily on cutting and splitting firewood right now.

73
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: pkveazey on July 15, 2021, 07:19:17 PM
As best I can tell, you have everything all connected and ready to go and just need heavy wire to feed the panel box. As a side note, I was warned by Battle Born to make sure I hooked the batteries to the charge controller before I connect the solar panels up to the charge controller. It had something to do with the charge controller wanting to have a load already in the line.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on July 15, 2021, 07:57:19 PM
Thanks PKv on the suggestion.

This system does not have the PV cables going directly to the Controller. All wire goes to a E-panel that has DC circuit breakers installed along with a 175-amp master breaker. From the e-panel everything is fed and monitored, e.g. Controller, inverter/charger, AC utility box to the house, battery bank, and generator. Ig nor the 3.6KWH nonculture at the bottom right, my system is 4.8 KWH with bypass/inverter setting's.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/E-Panel-7_15_2021.png)

Enjoy...
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on July 15, 2021, 10:08:33 PM
    Those E-panels are slick.  I helped install a similar system at a remote, off-grid office, and it was my first exposure to E-panels.  They certainly simplify the installation and they make for a much neater installation.  Looking at the circuit diagram, it looks like exactly the same set-up, and the components were all from Alt-E, so it probably is quite similar.  The electrician I was working with had never worked on a solar system prior to that installation.  The system worked great when it was completed, and the electrician was a convert to off-grid solar.

     Johny, it looks like you're doing a fantastic job, I'm sure you and Mrs. Mac will be pleased with the end result.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Felix on July 16, 2021, 06:47:52 AM
Big congrats on accomplishment.   
Our project is now on hold due to permitting issue (county sez we need a special floodplain survey.
 I do have a question though if anybody can advise...
 Of all the components, I would guess the controller would be a weak link due to complexity/fragile nature?
Is this item in need of protection from EMP?   Can it be protected and operate at the same time?
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on July 16, 2021, 08:49:29 AM
Great question Felix.

Jackalope and I have chatted about just this subject off line and hopefully, he will chime-in too. Because the controller is grounded to the system, it will probably cease to function post an EMP. It is better to have one sitting inside a faraday cage for just this purpose.

For me, a new Midnite Classic 150 Controller to just sit in the faraday gage would be ~$600-. Well, I have back-up transceivers so why not solar components.

A new Schneider SW inverter/charger would run ~$1,400-. I am sure you could find a cheaper Chinesium one however?? Keep in mind I only need the inverter/charger if I was going to run AC or recharge the batteries in January/February when the panels would not keep up charging the batteries.

Again, good question  :thumbsUp:

I just received an email stating my wire will be here Monday via USPS. That means Tuesday where I live.  ;) So, if it is raining on Wednesday, I will continue the wiring part of the project. If it isn't raining I will be splitting firewood.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on July 16, 2021, 09:52:28 AM
    Yeah, the controller is the brains of your system.  It makes sense to have an extra, even without EMP.  My research indicates that the panels should survive an EMP or CME fine.  From my reading, the charge controller is the most likely component to fail in a photovoltaic system, so that just reinforces the need for a spare.  Putting the spare in a Faraday enclosure is a wise decision.  I've got several put away for a powerless day.

     I've been working with photovoltaic systems for over 40 years, and I've yet to see a panel go bad, except from physical damage.  I've got a 40 year old ARCO panel that still functions, though certainly not at full output.  However, I've replaced many, many charge controllers.  Many of the photovoltaic systems that I have experience with were installed near the top of fire observation towers.  I imagine most of the charge controller failures could be attributed to lightning or static discharges.  An EMP has a faster rise time than lightning, which logically means that the controller could potentially be more susceptible to an EMP.

     So, from a system reliability standpoint, it's advisable to have spares.  Inverters also can be electronically fragile.  I had to replace at least one due to a nearby lightning strike.  Here at my hacienda, I leave the inverter physically disconnected from everything, but it could be reconnected in a few minutes, and yup there's spare inverters put away, as well as a couple of extra solar panels.  If the Big Day actually occurs, you won't be going down to Home Depot or contacting Alt-E for replacement components.  You come to the party with what you have.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Felix on July 17, 2021, 08:21:05 AM
Thanks for insights.    Besides EMP, I am reminded of lightening - it underscores need for spares.
Where I live (on the Mogollon Rim, Arizona) lightening is common during the "monsoon" season (we're in the middle of it right now).   T-storms can get pretty violent with lots of lightening strikes and flash flooding (street in Flagstaff was shown with car being washed down it on national news a night or two ago).
When a big bolt comes down on/near you it is a deafening explosion.   And leaves big scars on the tall Ponderosa pines surrounding us.   It can kill trees, big ones.
Once, we had a big strike come down next to the house - and we had to replace some coaxial cable connections which showed some blackening.   Fortunately, all electronics, TV, etc. were turned off at the time, all survived except a TV/sat box.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on September 18, 2021, 10:05:14 AM
Well now, four months into this project, the wiring is DONE!

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Pic-1-of-3-McEwing-Control-Panel-V1-9_15_2021-v2.png)

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Pic-2-of-3-McEwing-AC-panel-V1-9_15_2021-v2.png)

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/3-of-3-McEwing-panel-v3-9_15_2021-v2.png)

Yeah, I know... Four months? Well one month was lost due to Covid. Then there were stops and goes as I had to order additional components that were not available locally due to supply shortages. The biggest issue was wire.

Add to my excuses other projects I had to work on before winter approached. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

The next steps before I flip the switch are,

> Cleanup the work area in preparation for the eight batteries to be placed under the control panels,
> Unbox the batteries and move close to their final resting place,
> Build a battery box to prevent a possible fire hazard,
> Hook up battery cables and then,
> Flip the switch.  :dancingBanana:

One thing that I am scratching my head on is hooking up our generator to help out with a boost in January and February. The inverter/charger is a split-phase unit (SW 40480) from Schneider. I can't find a wiring diagram on the interwize and Schneider will not help me as I am not a certified and insured installer.  :facepalm:

Any electrical dude or dudett out there that could offer me some final advise?

Now I wonder what I should do with all of these screws and such left over...  :hiding:

Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Nemo on September 18, 2021, 11:59:50 AM
Now I wonder what I should do with all of these screws and such left over...  :hiding:

Put them in a big plastic jar on a shelf in the garage or basement.   You never know when the right fitting one for something else will be found in that jar.  No one else does either.  They most like will never fit anything right. 

I know, I have a couple jars.  I check them often.

And 1000 years from now they will be discovered and vewied as religious artifacts of some unknown civilization.

Nemo
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: FeedingFreedom on September 18, 2021, 12:46:13 PM
Now I wonder what I should do with all of these screws and such left over...  :hiding:

Put them in a big plastic jar on a shelf in the garage or basement.   You never know when the right fitting one for something else will be found in that jar.  No one else does either.  They most like will never fit anything right. 

I know, I have a couple jars.  I check them often.

And 1000 years from now they will be discovered and vewied as religious artifacts of some unknown civilization.

Nemo

Failing that, they would make great shrapnel for anti-varmint eradication measures.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on September 18, 2021, 12:52:23 PM
Two Legged varmints I would think.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: FeedingFreedom on September 19, 2021, 08:07:18 AM
What type of batteries are you using JM? Storage is the toughest part of any system, I need to replace my 6 golf cart batteries soon, and I'm looking for alternatives. I'd love to get bigger LiFePO4 batteries but the cost is prohibitive for more than one or two.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on September 19, 2021, 09:39:26 AM
What type of batteries are you using JM? Storage is the toughest part of any system, I need to replace my 6 golf cart batteries soon, and I'm looking for alternatives. I'd love to get bigger LiFePO4 batteries but the cost is prohibitive for more than one or two.

      Renogy is having an open box sale on eBay.  Their 100ah lithium batteries are priced at $600 each.  I paid $1000 each for the same batteries two years ago, so the prices are dropping.  You can get by with less lithium batteries, because you can draw them down much farther than conventional lead acid batteries, plus they have a much longer lifespan.  I'm expecting my batteries to last 15-20 years, so the when the cost is spread over a longer time period, the cost per year is reasonable.

     Johny, great job on the wiring, it looks good!
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on September 19, 2021, 02:52:40 PM
FF, I am using 8, Kilovault (https://www.altestore.com/store/deep-cycle-batteries/sealed-agm-batteries/kilovault-2100-plc-2100wh-180-ah-12v-advanced-agm-battery-p41443/)sealed AGM 180-Amp, 12-volt deep cycle batteries. The batteries are rated at 3,000 total cycles with a 3-year 100% guarantee and after that 2-year prorated guarantee. I paid $395- each for them.

If I had the money, lithium is the way to go for sure. Most lithium have a 10-year warranty and like what jackalope wrote, you can take them down to 25% vs. 50% for the deep deep cycle ones. But with that all written, $600- per lithium battery, that is a deal changer. I might have gone for that.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: pkveazey on September 19, 2021, 07:44:19 PM
I bought 2 LiFePo (Lithium) 100 AH Battleborn batteries. They were $950 each but they sold them to me for $900 each and as best I can remember, they are on sale for somewhere between $800 to $900. There has just been a new kid on the block who is competing with Battleborn and they are selling a very similar product for about $700 to $750. All of the companies that I've looked at also have 6 volt and 24 volt batteries. Some even have 48 volt batteries. The Battleborn batteries have a 10 year warrantee. They also have all kinds of internal protection circuitry. They won't allow them to go to Zero volts, they won't allow overcharge, they have short circuit protection, and they won't allow charging to take place when the battery is colder than 20 degrees F. I probably should buy 2 more Battleborn's but I just hate spending those big bucks. My battery output will be fed into a 12 volt DC IN to 220 volt AC OUT Inverter rated at 5000 watts.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on September 28, 2021, 11:36:14 AM
For all intents and purposes my solar system is live as of Sunday.  :dancingBanana:

Last week my neighbor and I unboxed the eight batteries and wired them up once they were placed on a riser. Just need to build a cover so anything dropped accidently that is metal does not get welded to the batteries.  :hiding:

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/solar-batteries-9_28_2021-v2.png)

Once the battery cables were hooked up in series then parallel, I ran the 48-volt cables to the C-panel and eagerly checked out my Midnite controller. Well nada! Damn. Sat down for a minute and pondered what i did wrong.

Eureka! I figured it out. I needed to turn on the solar panel utility switch and breakers that controlled the controlling part of the system. i flipped the switched and then I heard a whitr of fan and a beep and the screen came on the MidNite controller.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/solar-system-done-9_28_2021-v2.png)

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/solar-system-done-panels-9_28_2021-v2.png)

Next I ran 12/2 Romex from the 120-volt utility box to a outlet. Well the wires running to the new outlet had 125-volts running to it, the outlet didn't work.  :facepalm:

I swapped out the outlet and viola! We had light.

Yesterday, I ran wire to my big freezer and she purred as usual. Later this week, I will run wire to the upstairs refrigerator, Rinnai instant water heater, and the other two freezers electrical outlets.

Next week, I will build a cover for the batteries and hook-up for the generator. Once those last minute taske are completed I will be 100% done.

I will monitor how things go and report back in about a month. I will also report on how much the final project cost.

Stay tuned.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on September 28, 2021, 09:42:28 PM
Awesome work Johny!  Don't you love it when a plan comes together?  Now I'm thinking of hooking up one our freezers to our system, but I'll need to add another array.  Just brought down another 700-800 watts of panels from the old house, so we should have enough panels available, though I'll keep some for spares and other projects.

I'm sure Mrs. Mac is pleased with your work.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on September 28, 2021, 10:06:21 PM
"I'm sure Mrs. Mac is pleased with your work."

Now she wants a new refrigerator and a updated kitchen since I am done. I guess the 2x4/plywood shelves and the 40-ish old refrigerator isn't enough.  :hiding:  :facepalm:
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on March 03, 2022, 10:53:33 PM
So, how's the system working during the winter months?  Is there anything you would do different?  Any plans for system expansion?  Did Mrs. Mac get her new kitchen? 
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on March 03, 2022, 10:57:45 PM
Number one thing would be, add more batteries.

On the kitchen, MrsMac got her new refrigerator but not the rest. I need an extra pair of hands and a strong back. All are in short supply at the redoubt at this time.  :violin:
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on March 03, 2022, 11:04:30 PM
Lol, I can empathize with you Johny, my four legged security contractors aren't real helpful with my projects.  Spring is here temporarily, I'm hearing peepers tonight.  It was in the lower 70's today and it'll be warmer tomorrow, supposedly.

Anyways, seems like batteries are always the weakest link.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on June 30, 2022, 08:02:10 AM
At the end of April I added four more Kilovault 180 amp batteries. I now have a total of 540 amps or in reality half of that or 270 amps.

Since I added the batteries, my system is running 3 chest freezers and 2 refrigerators with no issues as was intended during the planning stages.

We had a loss of electric last week for a few hours, and I flipped a switch and was able to run an amateur radio net with no hassle along with the aforementioned appliances. Now understand, radio equipment does not draw much power but during that period I had the interwize, computer monitor, and a few other items accessories on.   
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on June 30, 2022, 09:08:59 AM
Very cool.  It's always nice when a plan comes together!  Hopefully, you've stocked some spare components.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on July 28, 2022, 02:02:49 PM
We had another power outage this week after a storm blew through. The dead Ash trees are falling like wheat in a field during a tornado after their infection of some damn Chinese beetle.

Anyway, like usual, I flipped a few switches and all was good.

While I was flipping switches, I thought to myself that this whole house was setup for "off grid" from its inception. We have a propane stove fired with pilot lights. Our water is pumped into a cistern weekly. From the cistern it is pumped throughout the cabin off of a independent 12-volt solar system. Our Sirius radio and the radios in the ham shack come off that system.

All of our lighting when the grid goes down are Aladdin lamps and I am working on battery or power pack/pack fired lights in the future. The Aladdin lamps are just to damn hot in the summer.

Then we have the big solar array for the freezers, refrigerators, and hot water heater. My plan in the winter is to run a alternate line from the 110/120 side of the solar inverter electrical box to the house electrical box. So in theory, I can have 110/120 to any parts of the house as needed. We would probably just use it to fire up the TV, satellite, and internet plus the big ceiling fan in the great room.

Nice!
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Obh on August 01, 2022, 08:58:52 AM
JM, I'd think about some 12V LEDs that are run by a powerpole distribution panel or a simple series of rocker switches.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on August 01, 2022, 09:17:36 AM
Thx OBH  :thumbsUp:  Do you or anybody have a suggestion of a company (s) I can start my search with?
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on August 01, 2022, 10:33:47 AM
   For power distribution, I use a West Mountain RIGrunner, which has powerpole connectors.  Here's a good selection of panels: https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/dc-multiple-outlet-panels (https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/dc-multiple-outlet-panels)

   Regarding lighting, I use a combination of 12 volt led lights, and also some USB led light strings which are used with either a 12 volt to usb converter, or a usb 5vdc power pack.  There are 12vdc led light bulbs, which fit conventional light fixtures.  I've found those on Amazon and Ebay.  The light fixture power cords have powerpole connectors installed, so the lights appear to be conventional lights.  I have both 12 vdc and usb extension cords, which allow us to temporarily install lights throughout the house.  In the aftermath of a tornado last year, we were the only ones in the neighborhood to have lighting throughout the house, and that can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending upon the security situation.

Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on August 01, 2022, 10:47:20 AM
Yeah Jackalope, I use those power distributers for my ham shack.

W hat I am looking for is a name of a company that supplies lights. Either 12 volt, flashlight type batteries or a power pack. Thoughts?
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on August 01, 2022, 12:08:30 PM
How about West Marine?  https://www.campingworld.com/inside-rv/indoor-lighting (https://www.campingworld.com/inside-rv/indoor-lighting)   Or just modify existing fixtures and use appropriate voltage bulbs.


I also have some Biolite USB powered strings, and lanterns.  They run off of either a DC converter, or a USB battery power pack.  They are dimmable too, I use one in the radio room.  I've been satisfied with them, and I use a Biolite Solar Panel 5+ to recharge the USB packs.  https://www.bioliteenergy.com/collections#lanterns-string-lights (https://www.bioliteenergy.com/collections#lanterns-string-lights)

 :dance: :fuckYeah:
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: pkveazey on August 01, 2022, 01:32:56 PM
For what its worth..... I sat down and calculated the total wattage needed to turn on every light in and outside my house and it came out to 1000 watts. If the SHTF, I'll go into my lightbulb stash and pull out all my LED bulbs that fit regular lamp sockets and save the used Incandescent bulbs along with my stash of new incandescent bulbs. I have a ton of extra Incandescent bulbs stocked up for SHTF. You can bet that most preppers and non-preppers have never given any thought to extra lightbulbs. When the Left Wing Environmental Whackos got their way and put a stop to 100 watt lightbulbs, I ran out and bought about 2 dozen extras before they were banned. I've got every size bulb you can imagine, from 7 watt nightlight bulbs, 15 watt, 25 watt, 40 watt, 60 watt, 70/80 watt, and several extra outdoor floodlight bulbs. Some are for regular sockets and some are for small sockets. If all else fails, I've got about a gazillion candles. :facepalm: I hope that I'll never need to connect my 5,000 watt solar system because my 10,000 watt surge/8,000 watt continuous gasoline Generator has been able to handle whatever I've thrown at it for many years. :dancingBanana:
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on August 02, 2022, 09:37:21 AM
Thanks gents!  :thumbsUp:
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on December 04, 2022, 03:47:32 PM
A couple days ago I installed the generator plug wiring into the charger portion of the Schneider 4048 Charger/Inverter. It only took a year- LOL.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/pic-3-of-3-charger-v2.png)

What finally got me moving was, we did not have much solar activity for four days straight and I was down to 60% of my battery capacity. Currently, we are only running a chest freezer, refrigerator, and on demand propane Rannai water heater. If I was running my other refrigerator and two chest freezers, I would have had to disconnect them from the solar system and run off of grid juice.

The new socket is set up for 240 volts and 30-amps. Currently, with an adapter, I can charge using the 240 volt's from the generator or using a 240 volt/120 volt adapter for grid juice.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/pic-2-of-3-charger-v2.png)
240/120 volt adapter connected to 10 gauge extension cord

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Image-1-of-4-charger-set-up-v2.png)
Bitter end of extension cord where I plug in to charge from grid juice

I am keeping a record of how long it takes to bring the batteries up to 100% using 120 volt grid juice. I will have a better idea once I finish my record keeping but right now it is about 1-hour of grid juice for every 10% positive move in battery storage capacity. So if the batteries are at 70% it takes an hour to get to 80%. That is a preliminary guess. I suspect it will take about half the time using 240 volts from my generator.

Being in the marine industry for 20+ years, I learned that it is a good idea to exercise your deep cycle batteries; Consequently, I do not worry about taking them down to 55-60% and then letting the sun charge them or if need be augmenting the charging process using grid or generator juice.

Side note, my generator, under load, runs for ~12 to 14-hours on one tank of gas. My preliminary guest-a-ment is, if I had all my freezers, refrigerators plus the instant water heater, and ran a few low wattage items in the house with minimal sunlight for lets say 2-3 days, I would have to run the generator once every two days for maybe 2-hours each day. Or use grid juice for 4-hours. Running the generator for maybe three times a week two hours each time to maintain our standard of living will cost us about 3-gallons of gas a week. Again, this is a preliminary educated guess. 

This morning we were at 80% capacity level. We had direct sun till noon then it became overcast. At the time of this writing, we had gathered 1.8 kWh which brought our battery capacity to close to 100%.

Currently, I have a string of four 20 amp sockets running off one of the inverter feeds. These supply juice to three freezers, two refrigerators and the instant water heater. Next on the punch list is to run another feed line to the electrical box and install a generator transfer switch. If needed, the plan is to turn off all the breakers with the exception of the one or two that we need.

As promised, there will be some additional comments as I learn more about our solar system. Stay tuned.

 :coffeeNews:
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Nemo on December 04, 2022, 04:25:14 PM
x
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on April 14, 2023, 03:15:43 PM
It had been awhile since my last update so here goes.

Winter
> The panels set at 30 degrees did great. Due to the 30 degree angle I really did not have much maintenance post snow storms as the panel would self shed the snow. However, when it was a wet snow and then freeze, I would have to take a broom to the panels.

Due to my Lat Lon I had to monitor the fill rate of the batteries a lot more. When the batteries got down to 55-60% I would fire up the generator to recharge the battery bank which would take 1 hour for each 10% down. So if the batteries were at 60% it would take 4-hours to get them back to 100%. And that is while everything is running in the background at the same time.

Keep in mind that was only if I ran into maybe a 3-day stretch of no sun and the batteries got down to that low level.

Of course, If I was to lazy to run the generator, (I hate the noise) I would plug the system into grid power that the cabin was using. I had moved my 3,500/4,000 watt generator from the shed down to under the porch just before the snow started falling. I hate starting then listening to that beast rumble on. I am thinking of buying a quieter one like the Yamaha 2,000 watt and putting the big one back into the shed away from the cabin. One is none and two is one.  ;)

Spring
> On March 15th I went to my Solar Panel Angle Converter (https://footprinthero.com/solar-panel-tilt-angle-calculator) to checked out the proper angle for my AO for spring. It was 50 degrees but in the end I raised the panels to 55 degrees. Keep in mind if using this converter you need to subtract the angle they recommend from 90 degrees to get the proper angle if using a angle app like the free Ridgid one I down loaded from Apple for my phone.

Summer
Just after Memorial day, I will raise the angle of the solar panels to 70%.

Fall I will lower the angle of the panels back down to 50 degrees

Just before Thanksgiving, I did drop a few trees due south of the panels that were casting shadows onto the panels. This spring there are two more that need to go down. Normally, I would not hesitate cutting them down but they are all nice sap producing maple trees close to the cabin.

From the last time I posted about our system, the grid went down about a half dozen times. Some times it was for maybe an hour or two and once it was down for two days. The purpose of the 48 volt system as stated earlier, was to power three chest freezer's two refrigerators, and our Rinniai instant propane water heater. Our water and radio system runs on a separate solar system which uses 12 volt vs. the 48 volt system. 

When we were out for the two days, along with the already designated appliances, the 48 volt system did provide extra juice for our entertainment system, (TV/Internet/wifi) too along with the ceiling fan. Light was created from a few LED lights and Aladdin Lamps. And of course our propane stove is 100% OFF the grid. By the way, those Premier Ranges (https://www.premierrange.com/models.html) are great for off grid use.

Our Premier Range is a pilot light fired one BUT as of 2014 it is illegal to buy a pilot light version in the States. Now the ignition source for their off grid propane ranges is 4-AA batteries that uses a electric spark. They work great as we had a marine version for our sail boat. 

So there you go.

73 & God Bless



Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on July 27, 2023, 04:52:38 PM
I took advantage of a sale and my neighbor driving out to altE in Massachusetts to pick up 4 more KiloVolt PL2100 batteries.

My system is now complete. We have 16 solar deep cycle AGM batteries (4 sets). I have been 100% on it since .
the beginning of June.

(http://navigatorbiz.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/16-house-batteries.jpg)

We are using,

> 3 Chest freezers,
> 2 refrigerators, and a
< Rinnai instant propane water heater.

Now granted it is summer, however, my system has yet to drop below 75%; Consequently, I have not had to top off the batteries with the generator yet. I know that this will change as we roll into December and through February though.

We have lost power several times since May for 8 to 24 hours. I ran the above list of electrical items PLUS, I hooked the system into the house electrical panel and ran our entertainment center, ham radio's, and great room ceiling fan with no issues.

Light was simple LED lamps like this one here https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08YP31Q9R?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08YP31Q9R?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details)

I will update this thread through the winter.

As a side note, my neighbor went with a 10 kWh system very similar to mine but using lithium batteries at $1,500-. He has had two lithium batteries fail since we hooked everything up. altE replaced them with no questions asked free of charge and free shipping. When we went out to MASS. to pick up my batteries he picked up 4 more panels and 4 more lithium batteries. So he is up to 3-banks of 48 volts each bank. For kicks and giggles, he has now spent ~$14K in batteries.

His goal is to run his whole house on his system for 48-hours without topping off with the houses generator.

I will add to this thread as new information becomes avaiable.

73
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Felix on July 27, 2023, 07:01:17 PM
Hugely appreciate the running updates.
No backup system here yet except for the 10kw propane-fueled gen (and a small Honda) - but loads, recharging, latest tech - all so useful in planning for those of us not quite "up to speed" yet.
My needs - two reefers, one chest freezer, water heaters for the horse's troughs in the Winter (although in younger years, I simply added gallons of near-boiling water each morning - more firewood, more lifting for my aging back!)
The lighting part, no problemo - LEDs really come to the rescue there - and incandescents - also hugely valuable not just for light but also for their "waste heat" in some areas.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on July 28, 2023, 08:49:53 AM
As a good friend that lives in Alaska stated in an earlier email exchange, a lot of folks who live off the grid in Alaska just use a generator and solar batteries. Using a 2000 W Honda generator and a 55 gallon metal drum of petrol, they run their generator daily (As needed) to recharge their battery bank and call it a day. They use one drum a month. This is a viable option especially in the winter when solar activity at that latitude is limited.

This certainly works except when you can not get any petrol.

Lets look at some costs.

55 gallon drum of petrol x $4.00 a gallon for gas = $220- Plus the added challenge of transport.
$220 x 12 months = $2,640- a year.

$1,000- for a Honda 2000 W generator and wiring. You would have that for solar or lets call Alaska Off Grid (AOG).

Then you have to add batteries and a inverter/charger. My numbers below are based on a 48 volt system. You could use a 24 or 12 volt system which is cheaper however less efficient. Try running some electrical devises on a 12 or 24 volt system.

48 volt Inverter/charger = $2,000-
16 AGM batteries @ $400- each = $6,400-. lithium will run you about $1,000- each and you will only need 12 because you can take lithium down to 25% charge.

Then the last part...Good quality solar panels are about $300- a panel for 400 watts. I have 6. 6 x $300- = $1,800. Almost half a years worth of petrol for the generator.

Just in my opinion, even for folks who may live in a more northern latitude then me, the best system is a combination of petrol/generator and solar panels. They complement each other. One is none and two is one.

I will stop rambling on now. Thoughts?

 
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Sir John Honeybucket on July 28, 2023, 10:16:22 AM
Thank you for posting this.  IT helps me to aim higher than the mid-grade system I have, to keep radios, 12 volt lighting and ability to recharge gadgets going.  Perhaps I should up my game while its still easy to order materials and make it easier for my wife to use it, as in' turn this switch and use the plugs with red back plates' (emergency power).

73 de SJH
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Jackalope on July 28, 2023, 10:26:02 AM
Rather than complementing the solar system with a petrol based power source, why not look at other alternate sources of energy?  If you have the right location, wind or hydro could be a good source.  At my old location, I used a small wind system, which was usually active when there wasn't sufficient sunlight.  Both wind and hydro can provide power around the clock, weather permitting.  I found a wind system worked well during the winter months.  But it's not the solution for everyone.  I also had a small bicycle generator, that was used mostly for exercise during the winter months, but it did provide a trickle of power.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on November 20, 2023, 01:26:54 PM
Wow, I just noticed I have not posted anything on our solar system since July. Here is an update.

1) All is working as expected. Running on one less refrigerator at the moment as we just do not need it. I will turn it back on
    today as Thanksgiving is approaching and will need the extra refrigerator room. I am also running with one less chest
    freezer on the system. I plugged that one into the grid while the other two chest freezers, one fridge, and Rinnai instant
    water heater is on the solar system. The trees just south of the panels are limiting charging capabilities due to the angle of
    the sun. I really hate cutting down those maple (Sugar) trees. I will have to if/when the grid goes down permanently. 

2) Drooped the angle of the panels from Summer to fall (70 degrees to 50 degrees).

3) Built a wood box for the generator. I hate that noise so I hope it will help reduce the db's from it. Also, the porch did a OK
    job of protecting the generator...Only a OK job. If anybody is interested I will write a brief review of that.

4) Back in August I ran ROMEX 12/2 wire to the houses electrical power box from the Inverter power box. Installed a Generator
    Transfer switch. When the grid goes down, I just shut off the main switch and flip the switches (Main Breaker/solar breaker)
    and turn off the switches on the main breaker but the one that powers a few items in the great room.

5) I am debating cutting down those maples or just adding three more 400W panels. I may end up doing both. I will wait till
    alte has another sale to decide.

6) The first week of December, I will drop the panels down for the winter to 30 degrees.

Bottom-line, I am still pretty dang happy with the purchase of this system.

On another note...

My neighbor purchased a similar system last spring but setup for 13 Kwh. He also used Lithium batteries instead of the AGM batteries I chose. All n' all, his system cost ~$25K. He told me the other day that if he knew how much it would have cost in the end he would not have gone solar.

After a full charge, he is only getting 12-16 hours of run time for his whole house before the sun has to recharge his batteries or he plugs in his charger to the grid. In essence, he has no backup if the grid goes down for days at a time and the sun is not shining for what ever reason. Yes he does have a generator if the grid goes down.

I do not want to put my neighbor down, however, he really does not understand how the system works.  Bottom-line, he needs more storage capabilities and probably a larger controller and inverter/charger to keep his whole home in power for days.
Obviously, when the grid goes down, he will have to limit his use to necessities.

Well with that quick update, wishing all a relaxing Thanksgiving.  :cheers:

Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: Nemo on November 20, 2023, 02:26:12 PM
And he needs to learn how to use much less power over the course of a day.

Nemo
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on November 20, 2023, 04:01:36 PM
 :thumbsUp: Yupper.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: pkveazey on November 20, 2023, 06:35:18 PM
Your neighbor will learn the hard way that he must learn Power Management. My system is only 240 volts AC @ 5000 Watts with 3 - 100 Amp hour Lithium Batteries and I'll only be using it for low power items for long term and when I need the well water, I'll turn it on just long enough to fill the bladder tank and then turn it off. The Hot water heater is definitely not going to be turned on unless it's for just a short period of time. I already do that with my 240 volt - 10,000 watt gasoline generator. When I talked to the Battleborn Batteries Engineer, I asked him if the 3 - 100 Amp hour batteries would get me through from sundown to dawn, he said "No problem, as long as you don't get stupid with high current items." From what he told me, I should be able to run all my lights, TV, Ham Radio, Refrigerator, and Computer. Keep in mind, those things won't be turned on 100% of the time. I measured the voltage and current of one solar panel and got about 20 volts DC at 5 Amps in full bright sun light. Four of those panels in parallel should give me about 20 volts at 20 Amps into the 30 Amp charge controller. I've got 1 extra 100 watt solar panel and a spare 30 Amp charge controller out in the shed for charging other folks items and for powering my extra 1000 Watt 120 volt inverter. So far, I'm into it for about $4,000 for everything. Those damned batteries are about $900 each. I also have to keep in mind that if I run out of battery storage in the nighttime, I can always hook up jumper cables from my SUV to the batteries to make it through the night. About 1 hour of Jumper charging with the motor idling should put a lot of juice into the batteries.
Title: Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
Post by: JohnyMac on November 21, 2023, 08:54:33 AM
Yes PKv, power management is the key.  :thumbsUp: